altariel: (Default)
[personal profile] altariel
The Troughton era comes to its conclusion. Hear our thorts! Marvel at our insight! Then go about your business.


The Dominators
[livejournal.com profile] mraltariel: Let's face it, the Quarks are not very good.
[livejournal.com profile] altariel: No.
[livejournal.com profile] mraltariel: They're not good even in their own narrative context.
[livejournal.com profile] altariel: No.
[livejournal.com profile] mraltariel: This story starts out quite promisingly and then completely falls apart. It's not actively bad, but it just meanders around purposelessly for five episodes.
[livejournal.com profile] altariel: The problem is that it completely lacks a B-plot. There's barely enough material for a four-parter, and what there is isn't very interesting.
[livejournal.com profile] mraltariel: It's not actively bad, it's competently boring.
[livejournal.com profile] altariel: FAIL.

The Mind Robber
[livejournal.com profile] mraltariel: I don't like 'The Mind Robber'. Actually watching it, it seems quite good. But it leaves a "that was crap" aftertaste.
[livejournal.com profile] altariel: I don't like stories about clambering into books. It's a conceit that irritates me. Having said that, this is one of the least irritating versions I've come across. I think I'd rather watch this than read another of those coy Jasper Ffordes for example.
[livejournal.com profile] mraltariel: And who wouldn't like Zoe's spangly jumpsuit.
[livejournal.com profile] altariel: Well quite!

The Invasion
[livejournal.com profile] mraltariel: This isn't as good as I remember either. However, it is considerably elevated by an all-round brilliant guest cast. I think the problem is that the "who's the villain" plot is slightly spoiled by knowing Lethbridge-Stewart, and it's dragged out over too many episodes.
[livejournal.com profile] altariel: I loved it. It gave good minion: "Pack-errrr!" And: dude! ANIMATED EPISODES!

The Krotons
[livejournal.com profile] mraltariel: I have a sekrit loving for "The Krotons".
[livejournal.com profile] altariel: I know. I do not.
[livejournal.com profile] mraltariel: "ALL GONDS LEAVE THE HALL!" in a South African bass is one of my favourite DW quotes.
[livejournal.com profile] altariel: I know.
[livejournal.com profile] mraltariel: It also has some good Bob-alogue--
[livejournal.com profile] altariel: Technical term.
[livejournal.com profile] mraltariel: --especially between Jamie and the scientist.
[livejournal.com profile] altariel: Jameh! Jameh! Jamie and Zoe are awesome.
[livejournal.com profile] mraltariel: They're vying with Ian and Barbara for my new favourite companions.
[livejournal.com profile] altariel: Wait till we've seen "The War Games".

The Seeds of Death
[livejournal.com profile] mraltariel: This was surprisingly rubbish. Substantially better than "The Ice Warriors" from last year, or "The Moonbase", which is the same story.
[livejournal.com profile] altariel: Well, that was a thing that happened to me.
[livejournal.com profile] mraltariel: I can safely say it won't be happening again.
[livejournal.com profile] altariel: Can we watch one without pictures now?

The Space Pirates
[livejournal.com profile] mraltariel: I was expecting this to be total rubbish because everyone has always told me it is. It isn't.
[livejournal.com profile] altariel: It was a lark.
[livejournal.com profile] mraltariel: With some proper nasty bits as well.
[livejournal.com profile] altariel: Not much in the way of narrative suspense, but fun getting there.

The War Games
[livejournal.com profile] mraltariel: This has always been one of my favourites, despite the fact that structurally it is just ten consecutive episodes of getting captured and escaping.
[livejournal.com profile] altariel: You bloody don't notice it. It's a cracker. I was on the edge of my seat with this. All the guest cast are fantastic, from the Barbara-and-Ian style Lady Jennifer and Carstairs, to tiny wee David Troughton's tiny wee scene of great intensity.
[livejournal.com profile] mraltariel: And then Philip Madoc turns up (for his second appearance of the season).
[livejournal.com profile] altariel: Philip Fucking Madoc! I would never have recognized him if you hadn't said! God, he's brilliant!
[livejournal.com profile] mraltariel: And then Gulliver shows up as a Time Lord!
[livejournal.com profile] altariel: Philip Madoc! Philip Fucking Madoc! I'm still not past that.
[livejournal.com profile] mraltariel: I know.
[livejournal.com profile] altariel: The other thing that's brilliant is the sense of impending doom. That alarm going off all the time, it's like the klaxon in "Blake".
[livejournal.com profile] mraltariel: And when the Time Lords make their power felt, it's really ominous.
[livejournal.com profile] altariel: Absolutely. And it's heart-breaking that they catch Troughton, of all the Doctors to get nobbled by the authorities.
[livejournal.com profile] mraltariel: And the direction is really imaginative. It's like they're all bothering for the last story.
[livejournal.com profile] altariel: Imagine if they did this every story: it would be the BEST TV SHOW EVAH.


Ranking
The War Games
The Invasion
The Space Pirates
The Krotons
The Seeds of Death
The Mind Robber
The Dominators


[livejournal.com profile] mraltariel: So, the Troughton era. The stories continue their general decline in quality since Hartnell's second season. And we've seen amongst the best (Jamie and Zoe) and worst (Victoria) of the companions we've ever had. However, in this last season, there have been some glimpses of how you can make good Doctor Who even when you've exhausted all the basic plots.
[livejournal.com profile] altariel: Yes, things like "The Web of Fear" and "Fury from the Deep". And of course, like you said, there's nothing remarkable about the plot of "The War Games", but the energy and belief that's put into it make it something special.
[livejournal.com profile] mraltariel: That said, they're going to need to give it a kick up the arse if it's going to carry on.
[livejournal.com profile] altariel: I think they should make it in colour and on film.
[livejournal.com profile] mraltariel: And - and I cannot stress this enough - they should avoid throwing away the pictures.
[livejournal.com profile] altariel: Yes, that would help.

Date: 2009-09-19 12:03 pm (UTC)
ext_550458: (Penny Dreadful)
From: [identity profile] strange-complex.livejournal.com
Oh dear - as someone who's currently working largely consecutively through Hartnell, and is mid-way through season two, [livejournal.com profile] mraltariel's comments are not encouraging! Right now, it is all good, all the time (well, mainly), and I don't fancy the prospect of losing that.

Mind you, I'm WELL looking forward to The War Games. Also, the fact that I've watched so much from later on does mean that by the time I get to season 6, I should hopefully be spurred on by the fact that the finish line is in sight - by that stage, all I'll have left to watch is those Pertwee, Davison and McCoy stories that hadn't yet been released on DVD at the time of my first sweep.

And so now you have 'seen' all the lost-image episodes! Well done - I'm sure not many people can say that. If you could resurrect the original moving images from just one story that had lost them (either completely or partially), which would it be?

Date: 2009-09-19 01:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] executrix.livejournal.com
The Quarks? You can tell it's not the 80s, it would have been the Creme Fraiches.

...and of course in the 80s they would have made their Power Felt to make Power Suits out of to wear to Power Breakfasts.

Date: 2009-09-19 02:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] toft-froggy.livejournal.com
There's something strangely riveting about reading reviews of TV I've never seen that in no way describe the plot and yet are highly evocative. And yet, I feel like if someone said to me, "So what did you think of War Games?" I could say, "I loved the alarm going off all the time! And Philip fucking Madoc!" and I would seem extremely well-informed.

Date: 2009-09-19 07:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jhall1.livejournal.com
Sadly, last having seen most of these stories when they were first broadcast, I can't remember enough about them to comment usefully. In most cases I can no longer even recall from the title what story goes with it. Until now I've resisted buying any Who video cassettes or DVDs, partly because there are so many and partly because I have lots of DVDs of other shows that I've bought and then never got around to watching.

I'm surprised that the BBC has done so little in the way of repeats of Classic Who, especially now that New Who is so popular. Did they perhaps sell the rights to other broadcasters so that they now aren't permitted to show them?

Date: 2009-09-19 07:44 pm (UTC)
manna: (Default)
From: [personal profile] manna
Pretty much entirely unrelated to Who, but...

My thoughts on Fan Fiction are pretty much this: That it seems strange to want to copy or 'augment' someone else's work when you could expend just as much energy and have a lot more fun making up your own.

Guess who said this.

Date: 2009-09-19 08:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] iainjcoleman.livejournal.com
We recently wathced The War Games as well, and it really is cracking stuff. I was prepared for it to be terribly overlong and padded, but in fact the story keeps developing, new characters (Philip fucking Madoc!) appear to shake things up, new mysteries are established (the War Chief knows the Doctor!) then, just as everything has finally worked itself out... the Time Lords turn up, and they're pissed off.

I think you're both a bit harsh on The Mind Robber. It's a lovely, entertaining story with some great design and possibly the finest arse shot in TV history.

I also have to take issue with the idea that there's been a general decline in story quality since season 2. Since season 3, I would grant you, as the Troughton years are marked by playing to a safe formula far too often. but season 3 itself has so many great, imaginative stories that stretch the show in all sorts of directions.

You're quite right, though, to emphasise the importance of the regular characters, and the second Doctor, Jamie and Zoe are certainly the best Tardis team since the original (though I do think that Hartnell and Peter Purves work very well together).

Good idea to make it in colour and on film, but only so long as they stick to the policy of casting serious character actors in the lead role. Heaven help us if they just get some bloke who does funny voices on the wireless.

Date: 2009-09-20 08:25 pm (UTC)
ext_6322: (Games)
From: [identity profile] kalypso-v.livejournal.com
I have fond memories of The Krotons, though I'm not sure I've seen it since 1969. And of course The Mind Robber was the one whose images haunted me for years, so I've made a point of seeing it again. Several times. I love Zoe and the Karkus, which was one bit I didn't remember...

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