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The Troughton era comes to its conclusion. Hear our thorts! Marvel at our insight! Then go about your business.


The Dominators
[livejournal.com profile] mraltariel: Let's face it, the Quarks are not very good.
[livejournal.com profile] altariel: No.
[livejournal.com profile] mraltariel: They're not good even in their own narrative context.
[livejournal.com profile] altariel: No.
[livejournal.com profile] mraltariel: This story starts out quite promisingly and then completely falls apart. It's not actively bad, but it just meanders around purposelessly for five episodes.
[livejournal.com profile] altariel: The problem is that it completely lacks a B-plot. There's barely enough material for a four-parter, and what there is isn't very interesting.
[livejournal.com profile] mraltariel: It's not actively bad, it's competently boring.
[livejournal.com profile] altariel: FAIL.

The Mind Robber
[livejournal.com profile] mraltariel: I don't like 'The Mind Robber'. Actually watching it, it seems quite good. But it leaves a "that was crap" aftertaste.
[livejournal.com profile] altariel: I don't like stories about clambering into books. It's a conceit that irritates me. Having said that, this is one of the least irritating versions I've come across. I think I'd rather watch this than read another of those coy Jasper Ffordes for example.
[livejournal.com profile] mraltariel: And who wouldn't like Zoe's spangly jumpsuit.
[livejournal.com profile] altariel: Well quite!

The Invasion
[livejournal.com profile] mraltariel: This isn't as good as I remember either. However, it is considerably elevated by an all-round brilliant guest cast. I think the problem is that the "who's the villain" plot is slightly spoiled by knowing Lethbridge-Stewart, and it's dragged out over too many episodes.
[livejournal.com profile] altariel: I loved it. It gave good minion: "Pack-errrr!" And: dude! ANIMATED EPISODES!

The Krotons
[livejournal.com profile] mraltariel: I have a sekrit loving for "The Krotons".
[livejournal.com profile] altariel: I know. I do not.
[livejournal.com profile] mraltariel: "ALL GONDS LEAVE THE HALL!" in a South African bass is one of my favourite DW quotes.
[livejournal.com profile] altariel: I know.
[livejournal.com profile] mraltariel: It also has some good Bob-alogue--
[livejournal.com profile] altariel: Technical term.
[livejournal.com profile] mraltariel: --especially between Jamie and the scientist.
[livejournal.com profile] altariel: Jameh! Jameh! Jamie and Zoe are awesome.
[livejournal.com profile] mraltariel: They're vying with Ian and Barbara for my new favourite companions.
[livejournal.com profile] altariel: Wait till we've seen "The War Games".

The Seeds of Death
[livejournal.com profile] mraltariel: This was surprisingly rubbish. Substantially better than "The Ice Warriors" from last year, or "The Moonbase", which is the same story.
[livejournal.com profile] altariel: Well, that was a thing that happened to me.
[livejournal.com profile] mraltariel: I can safely say it won't be happening again.
[livejournal.com profile] altariel: Can we watch one without pictures now?

The Space Pirates
[livejournal.com profile] mraltariel: I was expecting this to be total rubbish because everyone has always told me it is. It isn't.
[livejournal.com profile] altariel: It was a lark.
[livejournal.com profile] mraltariel: With some proper nasty bits as well.
[livejournal.com profile] altariel: Not much in the way of narrative suspense, but fun getting there.

The War Games
[livejournal.com profile] mraltariel: This has always been one of my favourites, despite the fact that structurally it is just ten consecutive episodes of getting captured and escaping.
[livejournal.com profile] altariel: You bloody don't notice it. It's a cracker. I was on the edge of my seat with this. All the guest cast are fantastic, from the Barbara-and-Ian style Lady Jennifer and Carstairs, to tiny wee David Troughton's tiny wee scene of great intensity.
[livejournal.com profile] mraltariel: And then Philip Madoc turns up (for his second appearance of the season).
[livejournal.com profile] altariel: Philip Fucking Madoc! I would never have recognized him if you hadn't said! God, he's brilliant!
[livejournal.com profile] mraltariel: And then Gulliver shows up as a Time Lord!
[livejournal.com profile] altariel: Philip Madoc! Philip Fucking Madoc! I'm still not past that.
[livejournal.com profile] mraltariel: I know.
[livejournal.com profile] altariel: The other thing that's brilliant is the sense of impending doom. That alarm going off all the time, it's like the klaxon in "Blake".
[livejournal.com profile] mraltariel: And when the Time Lords make their power felt, it's really ominous.
[livejournal.com profile] altariel: Absolutely. And it's heart-breaking that they catch Troughton, of all the Doctors to get nobbled by the authorities.
[livejournal.com profile] mraltariel: And the direction is really imaginative. It's like they're all bothering for the last story.
[livejournal.com profile] altariel: Imagine if they did this every story: it would be the BEST TV SHOW EVAH.


Ranking
The War Games
The Invasion
The Space Pirates
The Krotons
The Seeds of Death
The Mind Robber
The Dominators


[livejournal.com profile] mraltariel: So, the Troughton era. The stories continue their general decline in quality since Hartnell's second season. And we've seen amongst the best (Jamie and Zoe) and worst (Victoria) of the companions we've ever had. However, in this last season, there have been some glimpses of how you can make good Doctor Who even when you've exhausted all the basic plots.
[livejournal.com profile] altariel: Yes, things like "The Web of Fear" and "Fury from the Deep". And of course, like you said, there's nothing remarkable about the plot of "The War Games", but the energy and belief that's put into it make it something special.
[livejournal.com profile] mraltariel: That said, they're going to need to give it a kick up the arse if it's going to carry on.
[livejournal.com profile] altariel: I think they should make it in colour and on film.
[livejournal.com profile] mraltariel: And - and I cannot stress this enough - they should avoid throwing away the pictures.
[livejournal.com profile] altariel: Yes, that would help.

Date: 2009-09-19 12:32 pm (UTC)
ext_74910: (Default)
From: [identity profile] mraltariel.livejournal.com
It would, without a moment's hesitation, be "Marco Polo". With "Fury From The Deep" and "The Web of Fear" close runners up.

I think it is fair to say that it is still "mainly" good - it is just the number of "really great" episodes declines, and you do start to get a few "quite stinky" stories.

In part, I think that's because the companions aren't as good post Ian-and-Barbara, so the actors don't sell the less-good stories so well.

Date: 2009-09-19 01:08 pm (UTC)
ext_550458: (Doctor Who Bechdel test)
From: [identity profile] strange-complex.livejournal.com
Oh, how I love Ian and Barbara! Especially Barbara, because she wins so many feminism points, particularly for being mature and resourceful and clever in a way later companions alas often aren't. But it is also great how Ian is cool with that, and just gets on with his own awesomeness while totally trusting her to do the same. And yes, you're right - they do indeed carry weaker stories like The Sensorites to a large degree (even though Barbara wandered off on holiday for two episodes in that story!).

Anyway, it's good that you're so enthusiastic about Fury from the Deep and The Web of Fear, as that gives me something to look forward to well into the Troughton era. I'm a big fan of Marco Polo, so assume I'll like the other two if you did.

Date: 2009-09-19 02:04 pm (UTC)
ext_550458: (Megara flowers)
From: [identity profile] strange-complex.livejournal.com
Thank you very much! This is in fact its first public use, so it is nice to get such instant affirmation. :-)

Date: 2009-09-19 02:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] altariel.livejournal.com
Oh, loving that icon! Yes to all you say about Barbara, and I don't think it's a stretch to say this is Verity Lambert at work.

Other things to enjoy in the Troughton era include Troughton himself, of course. BTW, I wonder if you'll also think that the programme becomes markedly more sexist in this period.

Date: 2009-09-19 03:09 pm (UTC)
ext_550458: (Amelia Rumford archaeologist)
From: [identity profile] strange-complex.livejournal.com
Indeed about Verity. Was just listening to part of the commentary track for The Dalek Invasion of Earth yesterday, and loving how she got wrapped up and enthusiastic about these episodes which she hadn't seen for years. Such a pity she is not around to do any more of them. :-(

Given what I know of the Pertwee-era companions, I'm all too aware that there must be a drop-off in Girl Power during the Troughton period. I expect to find that it is fundamentally because they kept recruiting new girls to play what had originally been the role of Susan, and therefore involved being afraid and needing rescuing, but at some point stopped replacing Barbara. I do like what I've seen of Zoe in The Invasion, though.
Edited Date: 2009-09-19 03:10 pm (UTC)

Date: 2009-09-26 10:13 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] altariel.livejournal.com
Liz Shaw is a smashing companion, it's a real shame she didn't do more than one season. That's a character I'd quite like to see come back. Did you ever see PRoBe, the spinoff series with her? It's a long time since I've seen them, but I remember really enjoying them.

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