Prince Caspian

[altariel]

We went to see Prince Caspian last night and I enjoyed it a lot more than I was expecting. It's mraltariel's favourite of the Narnia books (mine's The Silver Chair) so I was a bit worried for him, but he liked it too, although it didn't quite capture the magic of the book for him. (They cut his favourite bits, which are the scenes with Doctor Cornelius at the start.)

I thought it was a surprisingly pagan film: all those conquistadores thrown down by the oppressed magic of the river and the woods. Punchy interpretation, guys! The summoning of the White Witch (my favourite bit of the book, I'm a much nastier child than mraltariel) was BRILLIANT, especially Edmund's destruction of her. Edmund had all the best bits, I loved his cool interactions with Miraz at the parley. The assault on Miraz's castle was also strong: did this have a PG? When I was tinier I'd have been crying in my pillows for ages after seeing all those Narnians stuck behind the gate.

Caspian didn't quite do enough to prove himself a good bet for King IMHO. And Peter! What a dick. I had a feeling that the writers weren't entirely convinced by the boy-with-a-kingly-destiny archetype, which was problematic for both the stories of both Caspian and Peter, really. Perhaps it feels a bit old-fashioned now.

However, Reepicheep was adorable (I WELLED WITH TEARS when they brought his tiny wee broken body before Aslan), Susan and Lucy and Edmund were great, and I loved all the Telmarine power struggles and their BAD GUYS council chamber. Cool.

Comments

[mraltariel.livejournal.com]

I tell you what, I'm joining the telmarines after this; there are fewer minotaurs and things in their castle.

[altariel.livejournal.com]

Also the throne was cool.

[communicator.livejournal.com]

I read it very much as a pagan story when I was a child, and like mraltariel, my favourite scenes were with Doctor Cornelius - that feeling of another more powerful world pushing through the ostensible world,

[altariel.livejournal.com]

The film has lots of anti-Catholic, or perhaps more accurately, anti-Jesuit stuff that I haven't quite worked out yet. Will need to ponder more. A very English story, I guess. Have you seen the film yet?

Now you say it, the near-conjuring of Jadis also carries that feeling of a more powerful world pushing through and disrupting the 'real' one. Have you seen the episode of Robin of Sherwood where Lucifer is summoned? A beautiful pale blue boy.

[communicator.livejournal.com]

I haven't seen the film, and I probably won't. The disjunct between my innocent pagan understanding of Prince Caspian, and the Christian triumphalism of the Last Battle, was a slap in the face. I can't really forgive it.

[altariel.livejournal.com]

I find The Last Battle unreadable now. When I think about it, I have to make myself imagine ripping it off the end of the other books.

[kerravonsen]

Agreed that they character-assassinated both Caspian and Peter. Boo! Hiss!

On the other hand, Edmund and Reepicheep rocked.

And the Telmarine politics added depth to it. Though it's a pity when the bad guys get better characterisation than the good guys.

[altariel.livejournal.com]

Bad guys are always easier to write. But ambiguous guys are easy to write too, and that might have been the way in to Caspian and Peter. They were sort of there, but you felt like the script needed one more shake.

[genarti]

I didn't exactly mind sullen!conflicted!Peter and the underlying clash between him and Caspian; I didn't exactly like it either, and it's not how I'd have done it, but I can see why they might have.

What I minded was that they were such morons about it so much of the time. Peter spent decades as a king, and Caspian grew up in an intrigue-laden palace (and, unlike in the book, isn't young enough to still be plausibly naive.) They should have been better politicians than to bring that conflict out into war councils all the time! If it had been a subtle undertone, stifled in public in favor of a united front For Narnia And The Lion and coming out in private hissed discussions and subtler body language, I would have liked it much better.

[altariel.livejournal.com]

Yes, I think you are totally spot on. Then there would have been wonderful symmetry with Miraz and his council. I'm not sure the two actors were quite up to it, alas.

[genarti]

Ooh, I didn't even think of the symmetry with Miraz and his council, but you're entirely right.

I think most of my problems with this movie can be attributed to a lack of subtlety, really. And many of my favorite moments to the presence of that subtlety! Or, okay, to people being kickass. I did really very much like the movie, on the whole, but I have a lot of quibbles with parts, and mostly they're the ones where they decided to go with the RARGH YOU KILLED MY FATHER!!! school of emoting and timing. (As a general thing; I don't only mean those Caspian scenes, though some of 'em are certainly on the list.)

[altariel.livejournal.com]

I completely agree about subtlety! I think part of this is something that I mentioned in my post, that I had a feeling that the writers didn't entirely believe in the idea of kings! Which is fair enough, but I think they needed to replace that in the script with something other than equivocation!

There is so much that could have been done comparing and contrasting the two 'courts': Miraz's paranoid, competitive and mutually suspicious despite (or perhaps because of) long acquaintance; Peter and Caspian's based on trust and a common goal, despite the fact they are strangers. That would have been brilliant. I think the story was fumbling towards it, but didn't quite there.

Oh well, as you say, I still liked it a lot, and I hope that they get to do The Silver Chair.

[altariel.livejournal.com]

BTW, it was impossible, during the "YOU KILLED MY FATHER!" bit not to lean over to mraltariel and whisper, "My name is Inigo Montoya. Prepare to die!"

[genarti]

Ahahaha. I think I managed not to whisper that one, but I definitely thought it.

[altariel.livejournal.com]

You have better self-control than me :-)

[genarti]

Or else I am just misremembering myself as having better self-control. --No, I remember, I was good! Because the theater was TOTALLY SILENT nearly the entire movie, and so I quailed at the thought of being That Person.

Plus there was someone who was That Person at one point, albeit later in the film ("Cut off his head. Cut off his head." in the Miraz bit, over and over under his breath until I had to frankly glare because some of us have read the book, dude, and shut up anyhow) and so I had extra impetus to be virtuous. *grin*

[altariel.livejournal.com]

Love that icon!

The cinema was really empty when we went, and I have a horrible feeling that I was That Person.

[genarti]

Thank you! I went wandering Getty at one point for pictures of adorable children making silly faces, and I think that picture was from that expedition.

Hee. Well, I feel that in a mostly-empty cinema, you are totally within your rights to be! Or when the movie just deserves it so much you can't help it. Ours was crowded, though, and a matinee so it had a number of kids too.

[altariel.livejournal.com]

Usually I heckle through the adverts, and then settle down for the film. Not changed much since I was fifteen.

[hafren.livejournal.com]

How can you character-assassinate Peter? He never had a character to start with.... things were way better when he dropped out of it!

[klose.livejournal.com]

I shamelessly admit I was too busy gaping at Caspian's handsomeness to notice the character assasination there - but I do agree with And Peter! What a dick. - !

The assault on Miraz's castle was also strong: did this have a PG? When I was tinier I'd have been crying in my pillows for ages after seeing all those Narnians stuck behind the gate.
There was a kid behind us in the theatre who began sobbing at this bit - and I couldn't help but think what you mentioned; if I was any younger I'm sure I would have been bawling very loudly.

[altariel.livejournal.com]

Poor kid, I quite sympathize, it was a very dark moment.

Ben Barnes was OK. I'm looking forward to seeing what Edmund looks like by Voyage of the Dawn Treader!

[the-wild-iris.livejournal.com]

And in VotDT, Caspian acts like a jerk, so Edmund wins even more.

[altariel.livejournal.com]

Excellent point!

[altariel.livejournal.com]

How interesting; yes, Bacchus was sadly absent, I love that bit. Hmm, now I'll have to think about that more in the context of what I think was the film's anti-Catholicism.

[toft-froggy.livejournal.com]

Peter was a total dick, in this film and the last, and Edmund is my favourite, not least because I would never get tired of looking at his face. I am very excited about the Silver Chair, that was always my favourite BBC adaptation, although not my favourite book.

Question: the 'island' at the end where he sent back the Telmarines - random South Pacific island, or England? I want it to be England.

[altariel.livejournal.com]

A brief look at Edmund's bio on IMDB informs me that he is posh in interesting ways.

I'd like to think it was England too, but I'm fairly certain it's a South Pacific island. Perhaps it's Guernsey, although if the Telmarines are also sent back to the 1940s, the Channel Islands would not be such a result.

[toft-froggy.livejournal.com]

Oh blimey, he's almost exactly a month older than my youngest brother. Now I feel dirty. Gosh, yes, he is posh, isn't he? But that's only to be expected.

[altariel.livejournal.com]

You feel dirty?! He's not quite half my age! (But then, see icon.)

Oh, this is funny: this gallery shows him as he was in TLTWATW and how is in Caspian.

[toft-froggy.livejournal.com]

Eep.

[greylin.livejournal.com]

We saw the premiere at the O2! My 20-something daughter was also very nearly in tears at the sight of all the dead Narnians. At the time I was glad we had gone to the O2 because I came home thinking that the evening hadn't been a total waste of time after all (the place is spectacular). But in retrospect, I think maybe it was just the ridiculous Susan/Caspian thing that had a bad effect on me. What a relief that Susan is now going to be into lipsticks and grown-up stuff like that *rolls eyes* so won't be back. The Spanish accents were COOL and I really enjoyed the rivalry between Peter and Caspian. Sadly, couldn't make out Reepicheep's tiny, wee, broken body very clearly from my seat in row 5237019.

Edmund and Trumpkin both rock. :)

[altariel.livejournal.com]

Gorgeous icon! How brilliant to have seen it at the O2. I also got tearful during the trailer for WALL-E (god help me), because I don't like stories about lost lonely little things.

The Susan/Caspian story didn't have any pay-off with the bookish spectacled boy at the end (who I thought was rather sweet and shall now call the BSB). Perhaps in that last scene back in London Susan and the BSB could have gallantly held the tube doors open for each other, and then laughed. Once a Queen of Narnia and warrior princess, etc.

[katlinel.livejournal.com]

Finally got to the cinema today to see this film! I'm still trying to work out what I thought of it all. In general, I enjoyed it as a jolly good romp.

They left out my favourite bit (the Bacchanalian orgy and the bit where the teacher is liberated from her class of revolting little boys who are all turned into pigs).

I really like Reepicheep and I hope he's in Voyage of the Dawn Treader as much as in the book.

The Narnians trapped behind the gate was heart-rending, especially when the trapped centaur gave Peter the nod to go on.

The bit with the White Witch in the book scared the heck out of me as a kid. I liked what they did with it in the film, showing that her lure wasn't just sweets in a world of rationing, and that both Peter and Caspian succumbed. I was irritated by their rivalry in the film - it seems like one of those things that script-writers thin adds tension, but it didn't, certainly not as shown in the film. It just made me want to slap Peter. Edmund was great!

Susan, of course, was brilliant. And I note that it's the boys in the film who put her into the sex object box. She's just trying to read her magazine/save her country and the boys intrude upon on her solitude and actions.

I wonder how they'll square Caspian's transfer of affection to the star's daughter in the next film?

[altariel.livejournal.com]

I'm glad you enjoyed it! I missed the Bacchanalian orgy and the school break-out too. I wish they'd found a way to get it in - it would have been fun!

Susan was great! I did feel a little sorry for the shy bespectacled boy who was trying to tell her he thought she was great, but then I don't like being talked to when I'm reading on public transport either ;-D