Torchwood

[altariel]

I was able to watch the first two episodes of Torchwood not just with Mr A., but with gair and Gerald. Yippee!

Opinion formed a continuum, although we all agreed the first episode was better. Mr A. and I were much more positive, although I think this is partly because - after the Robin Hood debacle - we had been massaging our expectations down so as to avoid disappointment. So it wasn't completely ghastly.

It wasn't great either, though. I kept on thinking of Ultraviolet as I was watching, and how much better a job it did of adult-orientated SF, and how better drawn the team of characters were too. These characters felt very teenage, to be honest. Swearing a bit and having a snog do not adult characters make. The only character I was really interested in was Gwen's boyfriend.

The colder Jack has great potential, but I miss debonair, seductive Jack. The one who would flirt with the flight computer telling him it's certain death this time because the computer's the only thing around to flirt with. I think, in particular, his recruiting of Gwen should have felt more like some kind of seduction: not necessarily sexual, but I think there should have been some sense that he was corrupting her. Because Torchwood corrupts in the same way as power: we've seen that with Harriet Jones and Yvonne Hartman from 'Army of Ghosts' and 'Doomsday'.

And there was somewhere to do this in the story: there's a brief scene where Gwen serves tea to CID and, later, shows interest in the murder investigation. Could this not have been developed a little more? Jack offers her the chance to be a detective. I think that would work better than the way they're positioning her, as the voice of Jack's better nature: "You must do something with all of this! Something good!" Ah, those civilizing women...! (The first episode of Ultraviolet follows exactly this plot, doesn't it? Copper drawn into shadowy, beyond government organization. It does it a lot better.)

The other thing I didn't like much was the set for the base of operations. It was too cobbled together. It felt like a set with props on. What I would really have liked was much more of all the Victorian tiling we could occasionally glimpse, with just occasional bits and pieces of insanely high tech lying around. Because it would point to Torchwood's origins, and the crumbling imperial dream it represents, and how it's being shored up. And I think it would have made a real contrast to have this sense of the old Empire lying beneath the new city, particularly given the gorgeous night shots we were getting of all the city lights (but then I'm a sucker for cities at night-time).

I was nodding off during the second episode (all right, all right, but it was warm and I was full of curry!) and haven't watched it all back yet. But the bits I did see made me wonder whether this was the same writer who had given us the penultimate episode of Life on Mars (the one with the cell death). It all seemed a wee bit silly.

The references to Rose and the Doctor left me a little ambivalent. It was nice to get the pointers, but I think I would have liked new mysteries to puzzle over. Is Jack planning to grow a new Doctor with that hand? Well, that would solve the whole Lonely God thing, I suppose. (Mr A. wondered at first whether it was the Hand of Boe.)

But I did love the opening scene with the dead man coming back to life, and I did like Jack coming back to life (ooh, symmetry). The trailer for next week looks pretty creepy too. I'll definitely keep on watching, but I hope it genuinely becomes the adult programme we were promised.

Comments

[matildabj.livejournal.com]

I've seen a lot of comparisons between TW and Ultraviolet. I haven't seen the latter, and now I really want to. Will hunt it down on DVD.

For grown-up SF, my current touchstone is Battlestar Galactica, which I know you hate. But it has grown-up themes: politics, moral ambiguity, adult relationships. The last 24 hours has made me want to write an essay on just why I like it so much, and I've even dug out my MA notes to that end. We'll see how far I get!

Torchwood, to me, was all about Captain Jack and the hope that he gets to have lots of sex, and discovering how he's in love with the Doctor. I can't wait for them to meet up again!

[kalypso-v.livejournal.com]

I'm enjoying Galactica, and the second season more than the first. Possibly watching the entire first season over two or three days was a mistake; now I'm seeing two episodes a week on the Sky reruns, and therefore there's a greater sense of suspense.

[altariel.livejournal.com]

How interesting, I found the second season of BSG terribly slow, but I was watching it weekly. I'd like to hear your thoughts about it.

[altariel.livejournal.com]

Ultraviolet is smashing, I'd love to know what you think of it. And I would really like to read your BSG essay!

Captain Jack discovering how he's in love with the Doctor

Absolutely. And hating him for abandoning him.

[matildabj.livejournal.com]

I think Rose had something to do with the abandonment. She saw that kiss, and realised she had a rival for the Doctor's affections. I really am excited to see what happens when Jack and the Doctor are reunited, especially as we'll have seen some Jack character development that the Doctor won't know about, and of course there's the Doctor's regeneration and how different he is from the Doctor Jack knew. So much loveliness!

[altariel.livejournal.com]

I think Rose had something to do with the abandonment.

Ooh, now that's an interesting idea!

You are so right about the Doctor/Captain reunion loveliness promise. So long as it doesn't go like this:

"Jack, it's me, the Doctor..."
"Stand still!"
"Gwen doesn't understand!"
"Neither do I, Doc!"

etc.

[matildabj.livejournal.com]

I'm a bit scared, because you know it can't end well. And John B himself said (I heard him say it with my own ears) that Jack's kinda miffed at the Doctor for dumping him.

[altariel.livejournal.com]

Eep!

[kerravonsen]

"Jack, it's me, the Doctor..."
"Stand still!"
"Gwen doesn't understand!"
"Neither do I, Doc!"

Bwa-ha-ha!

[kathyh]

I liked the second episode better than the first as I was getting more of a feel for the characters.

The other thing I didn't like much was the set for the base of operations. It was too cobbled together. It felt like a set with props on.

I couldn't put my finger on what was wrong with the set, but you're right that it felt cobbled together. Those tiles were intriguing but didn't seem to fit and should have done.

I'll definitely keep on watching, but I hope it genuinely becomes the adult programme we were promised.

So do I, but I'm quite optimistic about it at this point.

[altariel.livejournal.com]

The tiles are what count about the set, they should have showpieced them. They're quite beautiful.

Next week's trailer looked very promising.

Apparently it's got the highest ratings ever for BBC Three. Someon Matthew works with said that his wife (who has no interest in SF, she'll be on the phone during Doctor Who, that level of interest!) was completely gripped and loved it. So I bet it's doing exactly what it set out to do.

[altariel.livejournal.com]

Just gone to friends page and saw you knew the ratings fact already! :-D

[kalypso-v.livejournal.com]

I wish someone would hire you to write television drama. Or design sets, because the tiling was probably my favourite bit.

I was wondering whether it was just my previously-established imperviousness to Jack Harkness's charm, or whether he was a lot less colourful than before, so I'm glad you've reassured me.

But you've suddenly planted a worry in my mind. Didn't Rose-Tardis restore the entire population of 2,000th-century Earth to life? Does that mean they're all immortal now? That could be extremely awkward. I suppose one must hope that she restricted the immortal twist to Jack; presumably Rose remembers nothing of all that (unless we assume she kept quiet about Jack's being alive because she wanted him off the Tardis, and gave him immortality as compensation).

[altariel.livejournal.com]

I wish someone would hire me to write television drama too. The tiles made me think of the ones from the baths from Life on Mars.

This was definitely a toned-down Jack. I didn't mind that, since I think it made sense, but I would like have liked to have seen some of his characteristics done icily rather than gone.

Mr A. thinks that Goddess-Rose does restore the the entire population of 2,000th-century Earth to life, but it's only Jack to whom she grants immortality. Because while she doesn't want them to be dead, it's only really Jack that she doesn't want to die again.

[(Anonymous)]

I wish someone would hire me to write television drama too.

The campaign starts here.

[sugoll.livejournal.com]

Poxy LJ logins, etc.

[altariel.livejournal.com]

How I wish it was the 1960s: "We think your pitch is fairly ghastly, so we'll only give you a six-part series to be getting on with."

[paranoidangel]

after the Robin Hood debacle - we had been massaging our expectations down so as to avoid disappointment

Oh, me too.

The other thing I didn't like much was the set for the base of operations.

I'm so glad it's not just me. They keep praising it so much during interviews that I was expecting something grand and less cobbled-together looking. Something that sticks in your mind, not instantly forgettable.

The gratuitous sex stuff aside in the second ep, I liked it better. But I do like my cop shows and it was fairly typical stuff in trying to find stuff out.

I think I was the only person who didn't get that the hand was the Doctor's. I thought it was Jack's and at some point he'd had his hand cut off but because he was immortal it had grown back, and now he kept the old one around as a spare. So quite why it didn't trigger the memory of the Doctor's hand in The Christmas Invasion, I don't know. My excuse is that I was tired and I could have done with going to bed rather than watching the second ep.

[altariel.livejournal.com]

Two of us got the hand reference, two didn't. I briefly thought it was Jack's too, and then there was a little sting of music which clued me in - it's one of the Doctor's themes (his 'mysterious' theme, in fact). Now I really want a "Talk to the Hand" icon :-D

I really was nodding off during the second episode, so I do want to watch it again when I'm concentrating properly.

[paranoidangel]

I totally didn't notice the music, but I'm glad it's not just me who didn't get the hand reference, from the stuff I've read on blogs today it seemed like everyone else who saw it got it.

Now I really want a "Talk to the Hand" icon :-D

That would be cool.

[kalypso-v.livejournal.com]

I didn't take it in the first time it appeared on the screen, but when Jack got so worked up about it I thought "Oh, I see, it must be the Doctor's."

I'm beginning to wonder if I have a very high excitement threshold at the moment. Apparently other people were jumping up and down at the Somebody Else's Problem Field, whereas I was just thinking "Oh, right, it's a Somebody Else's Problem Field."

On the plus side, if this has applied for the past few months, I may discover that the third season of Deadwood was in fact as brilliant as the previous two, rather than just better than anything else around.

[brendan-moody.livejournal.com]

I didn't get the hand reference either, until I went to a message board and saw that apparently everyone else in the world had figured it out.

[executrix.livejournal.com]

The hand of Boe
Wearing the face that he keeps in a jar by the door...
Who is it for?

[altariel.livejournal.com]

:-D

[manna]

The colder Jack has great potential, but I miss debonair, seductive Jack.

That's interesting, because I was actually really pleased that the *kept* Jack's colder, more ruthless side. It would've been so easy to turn him into Doctor Mark II, but he's still the same person who could set up the defense of the station in The Parting Of The Ways and lie through his teeth, sending all those people off to die knowing full well that their guns were useless and all they could do was delay the Daleks to buy time. *And*, which is the really Captain Jack part, be willing to be part of that doomed defense himself.

I thought taking Gwen out and charming her, and then drugging her drink, was very Jack.

[redstarrobot.livejournal.com]

"The pleasure was all mine. Which is the only thing that matters in the end."

[manna]

Exactly!

And there's the way he's so eager to deny responsibility for what the nanobots have done in 'The Doctor Dances'. When he'd forced to face it, he's upset, but he'd much rather not see that damage he's done.

He's very brave, but he's very selfish too. I thought they'd have to change the character to some degree to put him in charge of Torchwood and have him be a leader and responsible for other people, but I'm pleasently surprised so far by how much of the old Jack is still there. The flaws in the team we've seen so far are the kind of flaws I can easily believe in a group selected and led by him.

[redstarrobot.livejournal.com]

The flaws in the team we've seen so far are the kind of flaws I can easily believe in a group selected and led by him.

You may have just given me reason to think that Owen's utter unlikeability is something other than a production team mistake, which I thank you for.

[manna]

You may have just given me reason to think that Owen's utter unlikeability is something other than a production team mistake,

See, if Jack did not have the good luck to be played by John Barrowman, and therefore have access to supernatual levels of charm, I have no trouble at all believing that he would use that nanobot/pheromone spray to get laid, and not think there was anything much wrong with it. He's a con artist, with a conscience which apparenetly needs to be kicked quite hard to stir it into life.

[redstarrobot.livejournal.com]

That's quite likely, although I think Jack would see what was wrong with it and use it anyway, and the knowledge that there's half a conscience in there goes a long way to making the con artist thing more likeable. Owen, on the other hand, just exudes smug unlikeability in the guise of "aren't I a clever little rogue, then" at every moment he's on-screen.

[manna]

Owen, on the other hand, just exudes smug unlikeability in the guise of "aren't I a clever little rogue, then" at every moment he's on-screen.

He really does. He reminds me of Tony DiNozzo in NCIS, who I think is supposed to be amusingly crass, but a large proportion of the time I just want to tie him in a weighted sack and throw it in a deep, deep ocean.

Also, Owen exploded a rat just because he thought it looked cool. Which, while funny to watch when No Actual Rats Were Harmed In The Making Of This Scene, is really not a sign on a healthy mind in the character.

[altariel.livejournal.com]

a conscience which apparenetly needs to be kicked quite hard to stir it into life

This is so heading for a Blake/Avon-style reunion when the Doctor and Jack meet up again!

[altariel.livejournal.com]

Mr A. suggested Owen is a good example of how Torchwood corrupts (or selects the easily corruptible).

[altariel.livejournal.com]

The flaws in the team we've seen so far are the kind of flaws I can easily believe in a group selected and led by him.

Oh, excellent point.

[redstarrobot.livejournal.com]

(Disclaimer: I've only seen the first ep so far.)

The colder Jack has great potential, but I miss debonair, seductive Jack.

I do think that, even in Who, they made it clear that the debonair side of him was a facade, as much as anything else, and there was something colder there. Something warmer, as well, but also something much colder. That's what won me over to Jack in Who, actually, and I may mention it in my review; the tall-dark-and-handsome charm is quickly revealed to be a facade over something a bit harder, and then that's revealed to be a facade over something more quietly charming. And I do see that quite a bit in Torchwood, just from a different angle.

I'm not very keen on Jack's immortality. It was fine when hinted at, but the reveal was clumsy, and the final scene was a bit too "And now I'm the immortal alien, and this is my human sidekick; see, the formula still works". I agree with the bit about civilising women and Gwen's personal ambition (filed under: lack of). That's going to get tiresome very quickly.

I did okay with the cobbled-together set, largely, I think, because they introduced it at its showiest and most cobbled together, and then made a joke of it, where it was clearly a set-up.

[altariel.livejournal.com]

the tall-dark-and-handsome charm is quickly revealed to be a facade over something a bit harder, and then that's revealed to be a facade over something more quietly charming

That interpretation I like a great deal..


Gwen's personal ambition (filed under: lack of).

Gwen really does seem a bit of a blank space to me right now.

[redstarrobot.livejournal.com]

Oh, and...

I think, in particular, his recruiting of Gwen should have felt more like some kind of seduction: not necessarily sexual, but I think there should have been some sense that he was corrupting her.

To me, it did. His turnaround on that point was so sudden, and his reasons for needing to keep her by hook or by crook so strong, that I didn't believe that line about thinking Torchwood should start helping people. I sounded to me like he was trying to hit her weakest point to acquire her.

[altariel.livejournal.com]

Interesting, I'll have to think about that. To be honest, the chief reason for wanting her to join that came across to me was that she is a recurring actress in the series, and so she's bound to end up joining the team ;-)

[kerravonsen]

Oh! (thwacks self in head for not making the connection) Is that what the hand was? Duh!

Not having seen Ultraviolet (yes, I am a philistine) I couldn't make that sort of comparison, but, yes, I don't think "groundbreaking" is an adjective which could be applied to Torchwood.
But that's okay. Maybe it will just be fun to watch Jack kicking down doors and waving guns.

[altariel.livejournal.com]

Maybe it will just be fun to watch Jack kicking down doors and waving guns.

I think you're onto a good strategy here.