Georgette Heyer poll

[altariel]

At the weekend, I broke my 'No New Books' rule resoundingly with a single visit to one of the secondhand book stalls on the market. There was a pile of eleven or twelve Georgette Heyer novels, going for a quid each; the stallholder gave me the lot for a tenner, and threw in a couple more that were a bit worn round the edges.

The burning question chez Altariel is now which one Mr A. should start off with. I haven't read most of them, but I'm certain most of you have, so I thought I'd ask the experts. It's a check box poll to give you a few options, but don't tick all fifteen, LOL! Feel free to expound in the comments.



[Poll #495367]


(I had to break it across two questions because there weren't enough option spaces for all the books - hope that works out OK. Probably should have included a 'none of these' option.)

Comments

[lame-pegasus.livejournal.com]

These Old Shades first, and then the sequel, Devil's Cub. (They are my favorites) :-)

[altariel.livejournal.com]

These Old Shades was my first Heyer :-)

[windswept1.livejournal.com]

The Black Moth... it has swords and stuff!:) It was my first one:)

You've reminded me I was starting off on These Old Shades before I moved last April:o

[altariel.livejournal.com]

swords and stuff!

Excellent point!

These Old Shades was my first Heyer, it's great fun.

[dolamrothdame.livejournal.com]

I picked Black Moth because it's been forever since I read any of them, but I remembered that one. You've got to love a highwayman who won't rob women or old folks, so he ends up dueling the young bucks for their goodies. And the horse was cute too.

But it truly read like a 30's sort of Errol Flynn picture, so it might not be the best thing for Mr. A. to start on.

[shezan.livejournal.com]

... wait, is Mr Altariel you? (I had assumed you were female.) In which case, go ahead and experience Frederica.

[altariel.livejournal.com]

I'm Altariel (the pseud I use for my Tolkien fanfic and this journal); Mr Altariel is my other half.

[teawith.livejournal.com]

These Old Shades is the classic Heyer, followed by Devil's Cub as the sequel, which while good, is not as good. The Black Moth for, as has been stated, swords and stuff. I clicked False Colours because I seem to recall there is fun stuff with highwaymen in that one, but bear in mind, I've read every Heyer, and I might be mixing them up. Frederica has a particularly feisty heroine, who I really like (although not as feisty as the Grand Sophy but you don't have that, or I'd have recced it too).

You have some of my ultimate favourites as well, but I'm not sure they are so suitable for blokey reading, so I haven't clicked them. (But for your interest, they would be Venetia, Friday's Child and The Convenient Marriage all of which I've read again and again)

Hope this helps!

[avon7.livejournal.com]

Nope, False Colours doesn't have highwaymen - it's the twins Kit and Eve, their silly, frivilous mamma and poor Bonamy Ripple. It is quite a lot of fun though. My favourites remain (not really on order - can't split them) - Cotillion, The Grand Sophy, The Unknown Ajax, Fredrica and Friday's Child. Even then I've probably forgotten one.

[altariel.livejournal.com]

Venetia came up on one of my online reading groups this month, and after you'd talked so warmly about it, I made a point of reading it. (And I did manage to completely forget the plot! *g*) It was wonderful!

Mr A. is expressing an interest in Frederica.

[sallymn.livejournal.com]

Heyers are the only romances I can stand, probably because they're really elegant (and honestly funny) comedies of manners disguised as romances :)

I'm a tad different in that The Black Moth and Devils Cub are right down on my most disliked Heyer books - I find them stodgier (especially the heroines) and without the grace and genuine laugh-out-loud wit of some of the others. The Unknown Ajax has one of her two most woooonnnderful heroes in Hugo (the other is Freddy in Cotillion, which you don't have, but which is probably my favourite Heyer of all) and some of the most hysterical romantic scenes ever; Fridays Child makes wonderful fun of the cliched romance characters (and makes them the secondary and comic lovers in the bargain).

Venetia, one of her latest, is something special in my opinion, and should be required reading for anyone who wants to give a heroine all the Mary Sue qualities (brains, beauty, wit, charm, you name it...) and still make her deeply appealing to the reader.

And I'm deeply jealous - I've been trying to get a non-falling-apart copy of Black Sheep for months now :)

[sallymn.livejournal.com]

Oh, sorry - I meant These Old Shades not The Black Moth (I barely recall the latter) in the 'disliked' pile.

[avon7.livejournal.com]

Just had to say that you have excellent taste! That's probably my list of favourites too - though I don't like Venetia as much.

[altariel.livejournal.com]

I finished Venetia some time last week, and I'd agree it's something special. It had such warmth and intelligence it. Great heroine. I'm really liking the sound of The Unknown Ajax.

[trixieleitz]

I've never read a Heyer, but so many of my favourite people like her that I've been meaning to start. So I'll be watching this thread with interest!

[altariel.livejournal.com]

Glad to oblige, LOL!

[catalyst42.livejournal.com]

You've caught me right while I'm re-reading the ones I own!
These Old Shades. My favorite, good for shooting and dueling, good for interesting character interplay, plot twists and overall fine storytelling

The Unknown Ajax for sheer comedy value, genuinely likeable hero.

Frederica for mayem and a feisty heroine with a real mind of her own (unlike nickeyB I prefer this to the Grand Sophy - Sophy has a matchmaking tendency which doesn't push my buttons)

I wouldn't give Devil's Cub, Regency Buck or Bath Tangle to any first time reader of Heyer. A little too much "taming of the shrew" approach to feisty women at the beginning of the tales which might put new readers off until they know the context better.

I personally adore Black Sheep, Lady of Quality and Venetia (all slightly older ladies attracting men with their wit and charm and the challenge of their conversation). Not sure they're the ones to start a new, male reader off with though.

The Tollgate would also be good to start a male reader on, a nice back story so romance isn't so much the raison d'etre of the tale. Masqueraders is fun too. Overall though, from the list you have The Unknown Ajax is probably the one to go for.

[altariel.livejournal.com]

Thanks for all these recs! :-)

Mr A. is going with the results of the poll, but since we have a tie at the moment, I think it will be Frederica he chooses first. I'm very taken with the sound of The Unknown Ajax after all that people have written here.

Loving the sound of your holiday! :-D

[kathyh]

Choosing a Heyer for a man to read is really tricky I think (basing this on my dad's reactions to them). I picked Friday's Child purely because it's such fun, but the first one I read (and still my favourite) was These Old Shades. If he doesn't faint from shock at the mere thought of reading a romance novel, though they are much more than that, then most of the ones on your list have got something to recommend them (*not* Cousin Kate though as it's a late book, and very strange).

[altariel.livejournal.com]

I'm reading Friday's Child at the moment and it's making me hoot with laughter.


If he doesn't faint from shock at the mere thought of reading a romance novel

Good heavens no, practically the opposite!

[(Anonymous)]

(Katlinel at work)

I couldn't wait till I was at home to weigh in on this thread, although I can't do the clicky thing till I'm at home.

My absolute favourite of the ones on that list has to be A Civil Contract. Whether I'd recommend as the starting point, I don't know. It's a very atypical romance, and doesn't really have the happy ending, so given that you prefer An Experiment in Love and Mr A prefers Fludd, it might be worth going for. It was also Heyer's own favourite (according to the biography of her written by Jane Aiken Hodge). I can't check the actual quote, even at home, because my mother cannot find her copy either. :-( Heyer also sends up the romance in her earlier works in this book because of the way she treats Julia and Rockwell, and I think paints a more accurate portrayal of the older man/younger woman romance of the more traditional variety found in books like These Old Shades.

If I was going for the fun ones, I'd pick two that aren't on your list. Sorry to be awkward. It would be The Masqueraders or The Talisman Ring. The former has escaped Jacobites and cross-dressing; the latter has highwaymen, Bow Street Runners, and smugglers. And if you wanted pirates, then Beauvallet, which has a more traditional romance format. In the former two, she's already moving away from the trad romance, as the primary romances are much more between women who can hold their own against the men. None of these are Regency ones, btw.

Of the more fun ones on the list, I would pick A Convenient Marriage for heroine who isn't pretty. And it also has highwaymen of a sort. And I think it's one of the better ones now with the younger heroine/older hero dynamic. I also like the fact that she doesn't fall for the dastardly villain, she just wants to beat the heck out of him at cards. And of course, the poker is magnificent.

BTW, Heyer despised her fans in general, and particularly the ones who wrote to her asking her to write These Old Shades again. (That's also from the Aiken Hodge biography, and there may also be references to this in Georgette Heyer: A Critical Retrospective.

I still enjoy These Old Shades, but the winsome Leonie no longer interests me as much as Mary from Devil's Cub does. I don't think you have to read the former to enjoy the latter either.

I had to look The Black Moth up on Amazon to remind myself of the story, so I wouldn't recommend that one.

And FWIW, I'd probably recommend The Grand Sophy as a retelling of Emma with a much more likeable heroine.

The Unknown Ajax is good too, especially if you agree that lots of planets have a north. :-) I didn't enjoy TUA that much on first reading, at an early age, when I was more taken by the swashbuckling, masterful romantic heroes, but I like it a lot now. Faro's Daughter is a similar tale but with the heroine, er, coming from the north, as it were, rather than the hero.

Cousin Kate was Heyer's attempt at a more gothic romance. I've only read it a couple of times, and I think I'd put it at the bottom of the list of ones to re-read.

Venetia - well, I also like this one too.

I'll probably click three tonight which will be A Civil Contract, The Convenient Marriage, and Venetia.

And I'll stop now, and be opinionated about the other ones on the list tonight. :-)

And a word of advice: Never recommend a Heyer to your reading group. The intellectual point-scoring committed by those who affect to despise all romances just isn't worth it.

[altariel.livejournal.com]

Gosh, I can't believe I didn't answer this post, I'm so sorry, katlinel.

The Unknown Ajax is good too, especially if you agree that lots of planets have a north. :-) I didn't enjoy TUA that much on first reading, at an early age, when I was more taken by the swashbuckling, masterful romantic heroes, but I like it a lot now.

I read it last weekend and enjoyed it enormously; as others said around here, he was a hugely entertaining lead character. I wasn't entirely satisfied with Anthea as a character, for some reason. Of course, not all heroines have to sparkle, but she didn't quite make herself known to me in the way that Heyer's characters usually do.

Right now I'm dithering between rereading The Convenient Marriage and trying out The Black Moth.


Never recommend a Heyer to your reading group. The intellectual point-scoring committed by those who affect to despise all romances just isn't worth it.

I am so tempted to go with a Heyer next time around. I mentioned at last week's meeting that I'd bought a pile of them, and people did speak very warmly about reading her as teenagers.

[chazzbanner.livejournal.com]

This comes up pretty often on a Heyer list I lurk on. (There have been a number of guys on the list over the years, and they have all been cool - one is the greatest non-military crytographer in the States, if not the world, believe it or not.)

Generallly.. it should include a subplot that is.. hmm, less claustrophobic than romances can be..
it should be witty, and it probably shouldn't depend too much on having read other novels first. For instance, Cotillion is wonderful, but it depends on your knowing the conventions of Heyer novels, so you see how she turns them upside down here.

I'd suggest The Unknown Ajax, because it has a romance which isn't too heavy, a smuggling subplot, a lot of colorful characters, a tour de force final act -- and it's funny.

[altariel.livejournal.com]

There have been a number of guys on the list over the years, and they have all been cool - one is the greatest non-military crytographer in the States, if not the world, believe it or not.

Brilliant!

Thank you for the rec! Mr A. will (and he'll correct me if I'm wrong) enjoy something that is well-written, well-characterized, and funny. I don't think a chiefly romance plot would be a problem.

[forodwaith.livejournal.com]

I chose Frederica because of the family mayhem and the balloon ride. I love Devil's Cub but feel that it might be a little too, er, Gothy for Mr. Altariel?

I bet Cotillion> would go over well -- I don't think you have to know that Heyer is spoofing herself to get (most of) the jokes, and Freddy is delightful.

[altariel.livejournal.com]

I think Frederica is the one he's leaning towards at the moment... I haven't read that one myself yet. Hopefully I can track down a copy of Cotillion; I think it might be back in print now.

[julesjones]

What an incredibly useful thread, thank you. :-) I acquired a large stack of Heyers last year, for two reasons - a) a bunch of other sf writers keep trying to pimp them to me, and the first one I read suggested that it was for good reason b) since I've somehow managed to get the profic published by a romance house rather than an sf house, it behooves me to read something in the genre. I've just turned in the latest manuscript and have time to read something, so was about to post a "Help? Where do I start?" in my own LJ...

[altariel.livejournal.com]

Glad to oblige! :-D

And congratulations about turning in the latest manuscript and having some time again, it's a terrific feeling.

[kerravonsen]

Well, I went for "These Old Shades" and "Black Sheep"; not "Devil's Cub" because he should read that after "These Old Shades". Mind you, "These Old Shades" is probably a-typical of Heyer regencies, but it is so cool with the Duke of Avon... and "Black Sheep" is similar in that it has an anti-hero sort of hero, which should appeal to B7 fans (it appeals to me!)

Glad you brought this up, because there are a few here which people are wildly reccommending (like "Frederica") which I haven't read -- and I should really get my own copy of "A Civil Contract", that would be worth re-reading. And "The Unknown Ajax"...

One that's not on your list is "Powder and Patch", which I'm fond of, because the hero is not interested in the fripperies of Society, and when the love of his life rejects him because of this, he teaches her (and his father) a lesson by learning how to out-Fashion everybody.

[altariel.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the recs :-) I thought A Civil Contract was marvellous, well worth tracking down a copy if you're thinking of rereading. I'm loving the descriptions of The Unknown Ajax that people have been posting.

I'll keep an eye out for Powder and Patch, although s/hand Heyers seem to be thin on the ground these days (just as I start looking out for them, bah) - which was one reason why I snapped up this great pile of them when I saw them. They're coming back into print, but at £7.99 a pop they're not cheap.

Thanks!

[(Anonymous)]

Thanks all you posting folks! I'm going with...oooh...the anticipation...Frederica because it has won the poll: for complex technical reasons relating to Una voting and the fact that "Shades" has been hyped at me for over a decade and therefore is likely to suffer in my cold hard grumpy old hands.

What made it so difficult to choose is that the blurbs are brilliantly hilarious, and make me want to read them all at once.

So...tonight I will finish "The Fall And Rise of Reginald Perrin" for the billionth time, leave that bleak-but-funny-no-just-bleak-actually-midlife-crisis behind, and the Heyering will begin!

Thanks again,

Mr A

[katlinel.livejournal.com]

Enjoy! And watch out for the Baluchistan hound.