Fantastic grow the evening gowns

[altariel]

edge_of_ruin and I wound up the holiday with a viewing of the Dune miniseries. I knew nothing about Dune; edge_of_ruin provided helpful explanations throughout. I'd have been sunk without it.

Wasn't sure whether I was supposed to back the Right but Repulsive fundamentalists or the Wrong but Wromantic imperialists, and I'm leaning slightly towards the latter because their costumes were better.

Because - oh, my dears, the frocks! Oh, the hats! This is how Blake's 7 would have been, with slightly more cash. Not much more, mind you.

Comments

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Ah yes, the costumes. I thought Irulan in particular was best dressed, in Children of Dune as well.

As for the miniseries: though flawed, the David Lynch movie is better. For starters because Paul and Jessica are supposed to be charismatic people, and Leto a tragic hero, and the actors playing them in the miniseries, including, I'm sad to say, William Hurt, are flat, flat, flat. (Though the actor playing Paul improves somewhat in Children of Dune when he's supposed to be the dissillusioned Messiah, not the charismatic leader. And they replaced Jessica, and Alice Krige, aka the Borg Queen, is ever so much better in the role.) Oh, and of course there can be no competition at all Sian Philipps, the Empress Livia herself, as the Reverend Mother Gaius Monahan in the movie. Great casting coup by Lynch, that. (Last bit of trivia: Patrick Stewart is in it as well as Gurney.)

You were supposed to root for the Atreides crowd and the Fremen, of course.*g* (That would be the fundamentalists.) Those decadent aristocrats are baaaaaad people. Except for Leto, natch.

[altariel.livejournal.com]

I have seen the David Lynch version only on fast-forward (a friend was skipping through to the bits with Patrick Stewart), so I don't remember the first thing about it (and certainly made no sense of it at all). Sian Philipps would be brilliant!


You were supposed to root for the Atreides crowd and the Fremen, of course.*g*

Ah, I feared that was supposed to be the case *g*

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Sian Philipps would be brilliant!

She is, she is!

[edge-of-ruin.livejournal.com]

Agreed, Sian Philipps was excellent. Hmm, I think I preferred the Lynch Leto (Jurgen Prochnow) over William Hurt - who conveyed little sense that here was a leader who could inspire the undying loyalty of his men like Duncan and Gurney. I also thought that miniseries-Jessica was weak – glad to hear she is replaced in the next one. I'm not too sure about the Pauls though – I think I preferred the non-Lynch one.

I loved the sets, adored the hats, and loved it that the Atriedes were soooo old money they didn't even need them. I was manly disappointed that there were no shields and sword-fighting. "Keep your shield, Duncan. Your right arm is shield enough for me." *sigh* How could they pass up on cheese like that?

Thanks for being polite about my constant wittering in your ear:-)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Hmm, I think I preferred the Lynch Leto (Jurgen Prochnow) over William Hurt - who conveyed little sense that here was a leader who could inspire the undying loyalty of his men like Duncan and Gurney.

Exactly. And I'm not patriotically biased just because Mr. Prochnow rocked in Das Boot as well.*g*

I also thought that miniseries-Jessica was weak – glad to hear she is replaced in the next one.

Alice Krige is excellent in the part, which is good since the the Jessica-Alia confrontations are crucial. The actress who plays adult Alia is also very good.

"Keep your shield, Duncan. Your right arm is shield enough for me." *sigh* How could they pass up on cheese like that?

Look forward to Clone!Duncan being manly and loyal and torn in the sequel.*g*

I'm not too sure about the Pauls though – I think I preferred the non-Lynch one.

Hm. I thought Kyle MacLachlan did the visionary Messiah thing better, but will admit miniseries!Paul does grow in Children of Dune when he's horrified by what he set in motion and goes the crazy hermit way.

One thing I really like in the miniseries (and in the next one), and here I'm going heretical on Frank Herbert: Irulan. I was always annoyed that Herbert chose to go the easy route with Irulan in Dune Messiah, making her a weak, jealous character, whom Paul couldn't possibly have feelings for. And yet she has a quasi-narrator function through all those excerpts in Dune. So the miniseries strengthening her role and giving her dignity and ambiguity was fine by me, and I loved Julie Cox in the role.

[edge-of-ruin.livejournal.com]

Exactly. And I'm not patriotically biased just because Mr. Prochnow rocked in Das Boot as well.*g*

He certainly did, he was outstanding! And in such a way that it's easy for some of that role to bleed over into the Leto one.

Alice Krige is excellent in the part, which is good since the the Jessica-Alia confrontations are crucial. The actress who plays adult Alia is also very good.

It's ages since I read the books so I'm a bit hazy but I would have thought any actress would just love to have a shot at Alia. Though she'd eat miniseries!Jessica No1 for breakfast in a Reverend Mother slam down, so that's good news about Alice Krige.

Look forward to Clone!Duncan being manly and loyal and torn in the sequel.*g*

I thought he showed potential *g*. I'll look forward to going all weak-kneed.

miniseries!Paul does grow in Children of Dune when he's horrified by what he set in motion and goes the crazy hermit way.

I thought it looked as though he'd do angst rather well. I hope we get all the stuff with the stone burner.

So the miniseries strengthening her role and giving her dignity and ambiguity was fine by me, and I loved Julie Cox in the role.

Yes, I certainly liked it that they had beefed up her role and made her more than just an insipid tool. Altariel's reaction was one of sympathy for her at the end and I'm not sure that's something you feel even in the first book IIRC.

I'm definitely looking forward to seeing the sequel sometime - there's so much good stuff to come.

[the-wild-iris.livejournal.com]

I was uncomfortable with Alex Newman's Paul at first, but he grew on me as the episodes went along - I thought he convincingly showed Paul's growing maturity and assumption of leadership, especially in the pivotal scene where he's expected to call Stilgar out, and refuses. Was also disappointed with Saskia Reeves - she didn't seem to show much gusto for such a strong role as Jessica. One of the things I appreciated most about the mini-series, though, was that the secondary characters came off much better than in the Lynch film. I liked the portrayals of Kynes (yes! we see his death!), Stilgar (yes! Jamis' funeral scene!), and especially Barbara Kodetova as Chani.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I hope we get all the stuff with the stone burner.

Yes.

Yes, I certainly liked it that they had beefed up her role and made her more than just an insipid tool. Altariel's reaction was one of sympathy for her at the end and I'm not sure that's something you feel even in the first book IIRC.

I felt sympathy for her when reading Dune for the first time because of Jessica's "she'll never be loved in the way WE are" announcements, but I'm sure Herbert wanted me just to root for the True Love (tm) of Paul and Chani. Irulan in both miniseries, otoh, is sympathetic and tragic because she's stuck in a situation where she can't win, and still does her best to cope. Also, you get the sense that under other circumstances, she and Paul would have made a good match. There is a great scene between her and Paul in Children of Dune (the miniseries, which encompasses both the novel "Dune Messiah" and "Children of Dune") just before he goes off to the desert with Chani due for childbirth, where they acknowledge the might-have-been, and this scene makes sense of what comes out of the blue in the novels, the fact that Irulan loved him and then devotes the rest of her life to care for the kids. (In the novel, you wounder "why?", not just because she's presented as insipid, but because he hasn't exactly given her a reason to).

Another thing to look forward to: Susan Sarandon as our new villain. (And having fun being wicked.) Really, between Sarandon, Cox, Krige and the actress who plays Alia whose name I can't recall right now unfortunately, the sequel is full of strong female performances. The twins, Leto and Ghanima, are good as well - as a matter of fact, Leto probably got the most female fellowing of any of the Dune men afterwards.*g*

[altariel.livejournal.com]

Also, you get the sense that under other circumstances, she and Paul would have made a good match.

Yes, I really liked that.

[altariel.livejournal.com]

I liked the performance from the guy playing Paul; they also did a good job of his make-up, etc. He matured perceptibly over the course of the story.

I thought Irulan was one of the most engaging characters; as edge_of_ruin put elsewhere, I had real sympathy for her at the end. I liked her earlier scenes with Paul, when they first met, and wanted to see more of how that would play out.

I missed Children of Dune when it showed on Sci-Fi, but I caught Dune on a special all-day re-showing, so hopefully they'll do the same with the second one.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I liked the performance from the guy playing Paul

Then you'll enjoy what he does in Children of Dune, which is a more complicated story, because it's less clear-cut good guys/bad guys. We open with a look at the dead Muad'dibs crusade has left behind, and it's pretty clear that the theocratic government is inherently wrong and doomed. Also, his ability to see the future increasingly traps him, because he can't see any alternatives. He's a deeply tragic character here, and in the end, they even bring something of the Dostojevskian idea of Christ versus the Inquisitor in, regarding Paul's ultimate fate. Despite my unease with him in Dune, I thought Alec Freeman played that excellently in Children of Dune.

I thought Irulan was one of the most engaging characters; as edge_of_ruin put elsewhere, I had real sympathy for her at the end. I liked her earlier scenes with Paul, when they first met, and wanted to see more of how that would play out.

Alas, they have only one more scene (and a farewell scene at that) in which they are alone (there are always other people present in the others), but that one is very good and touching, and very honest from both of them. At the end of which he kisses her for the first and last time.

However, Irulan continues to be an engaging character in the second miniseries (and to get good scenes, and great wardrobe*g*). And as I said, the overall story is more complex, as are the villains. Baron Harkonnen was just boo-hiss-worthy; one of our main antagonists in Children of Dune is at the same time one main protagonist, and you never stop feeling pity for (spoiler). So watch it if they repeat it, by all means.

[altariel.livejournal.com]

Ooh, you've really whetted my appetite now! I hope it turns up on Sci-Fi again soon. I'm kicking myself that I didn't record it when I saw it was on.

[altariel.livejournal.com]

Wasn't wittering at all! I would have missed key plot points (e.g. Jessica being pregnant), and would never have worked out who the bad guys were! ;-D

[manna]

Wasn't sure whether I was supposed to back the Right but Repulsive fundamentalists or the Wrong but Wromantic imperialists,

The sandworms. That's who I always cheer for.

[altariel.livejournal.com]

They seem to get the best deal out of the whole thing.

[the-wild-iris.livejournal.com]

Silly hats are a sure sign of villainy :) I'm convinced that some of the Sardaukar's hats were left over from Red Sonja...

[altariel.livejournal.com]

edge_of_ruin and I came up with a theory that the hats in Dune were to do with social status. The Fremen are too poor to have hats; the Atriedes are so posh they don't need them.