Shame

[altariel]

It makes me feel physically sick to hear John Reid say: "It is unfair that foreigners come to this country illegitimately and steal our benefits, steal our services like the NHS and undermine the minimum wage by working." "Foreigners." Honestly, my critical reasoning abandons me. The man's a disgrace.

Comments

[gaspode.livejournal.com]

I know where your coming from - but I think the key word in the headline is illegally.

But yes - it was badly stated - guy needs a new script writer, the phrasing is far more inflamatory than I suspect the intent.

[telperion1.livejournal.com]

What strikes me is the complete incompatability of two components. Surely if there's anything they could do to avoid "stealing" services like health care it would be contributing to the society. So would he rather these immigrants be sitting around doing nothing and taking advantage of the services, or would he rather them be out working and thus "undermine the minimum wage". Grrr.

Illogic aside, it's things like these that make me mad. It reminds me of the sense of entitlement so many Americans have: that we deserve a better life because of some accident of birth than people born in another part of the world. If the governments of the world asked me I'd say let people immigrate and ease them into the benefits system after certain years of work. Don't keep people out for fear they'll just take advantage of us - let them start out with what is really bare minimum citizenship "perks" (i.e., emergency health service, due process in trials, and access to education for their children) and as they have worked for [x] number of years give them more of the benefits of being a citizen, easing into full citizenship. The obvious exception being people that we're concerned about for national security like suspected terrorists. That's a whole other ball of wax, but for everyone else at least, this fear of their taking advantage and then not giving them the legal tools to fit into the society is absurd.

Not that anyone asks me how to run these things, obviously. ;-)

[frankymole.livejournal.com]

America's a nation of immigrants anyway. So is Britain, historically.

If they pay tax, and that tax is used to benefit all, no problem.

I think it is illegals not paying tax he's going on about. Still, it is badly-worded.

[snowballjane.livejournal.com]

Gah! Is he angling for a job as a Daily Mail sub-editor?

Stealing the NHS?! I'll tell him who's stealing the NHS. Big business, assisted by his government, that's who.

[bill-leisner.livejournal.com]

How does one "undermine the minimum wage by working"?? You work, and you get paid the wage that work entails, minimal though it may be.

Now, he may be talking about employers undermining minimum wage laws by taking advantage of the immigrant community and paying them less... but that would seem to be the fault of the people who are already living there, rather than the foreigners.

[fjm.livejournal.com]

But....

it is illegal to work

so we complain if they beg or claim benefits....

Almost all the illegal immigrants are refugees. We turn them down and sent them back to nice safe countries like.... Iraq, and Somalia, and Syria.

And just to make it more appalling, all the figures make it clear that immigrants, illegal or legal, give back more than they take.

[fjm.livejournal.com]

And I forgot to add: the government has just created an entire batch of illegal immigrants by changing the terms of service for "skilled" workers". So a whole load of doctors who came here perfectly legally have been told they have to leave.

[hafren.livejournal.com]

Precisely. Nor can he have it both ways, decrying them both for working and not working.

Badly worded? Well, it has no business to be badly worded; I don't employ him to be unable to express his thoughts in clear English. But in fact I think it is worded just as he wanted it to be, to appeal to the Daily Vile.

[bill-leisner.livejournal.com]

If he can't express himself clearly in English, he can always get a position in the Bush Administration!

[glitterboy1.livejournal.com]

God. He's unfit for purpose.

[iainjcoleman.livejournal.com]

it was badly stated - guy needs a new script writer, the phrasing is far more inflamatory than I suspect the intent.

I disagree. John Reid - Dr John Reid, as he will never fail to remind you - is smarter than he looks, and has always struck me as someone who is very precise in his use of language. He knew exactly what he was saying, and to whom.

But honestly, is any of this a surprise? Labour have been tracking exactly this trajectory ever since Tony Blair was Shadow Home Secretary, and John Reid of all people isn't going to be the one to change that.

[edge-of-ruin.livejournal.com]

Gah! Home Guard or what?

[spacefall.livejournal.com]

That is ... aaargh!

[snowgrouse.livejournal.com]

*stabstabstab*

[altariel.livejournal.com]

guy needs a new script writer, the phrasing is far more inflamatory than I suspect the intent

Nobody's holding a gun to his head to make him say this stuff. It should stick in his throat. I disagree profoundly that it's come across as more inflammatory than intended. This guy knows exactly what he's saying. It's cheap scare-mongering designed to attract the Daily Mail vote before it drifts off to Cameron. It's intended to shore up his position as the head of a department that is falling apart. And it's all part of a broader justification for that massive drain on public money, the ID card scheme.

Illegal immigration means people escaping war and poverty, making long and often life-threatening journeys to come to Western countries to do shitty jobs no-one else will do, and get to be called "stealing foreigners" for doing them. It's a pity the Home Secretary can't come up with some ideas for how to improve that so that people don't want or need to come here in the first place.

[altariel.livejournal.com]

He's unfit for purpose.

Hear hear.

[hafren.livejournal.com]

Pardon? My granddad was in the Home Guard. He would cheerfully have fended an invading Hitler off with his walking stick, but that doesn't make him a racist, nor mean that he would have given John Reid the time of day.

[altariel.livejournal.com]

Babylon 5 reference, I think: the Home Guard in B5 are a militant "Pro-Earth" (i.e. anti-alien) group.

[jhall1.livejournal.com]

Jst what I was thinking.

[hafren.livejournal.com]

Ah, I've never seen it. I can't say I like their choice of title.

[katlinel.livejournal.com]

*grits teeth*

"The worst are full of passionate intensity."

He's poison.

[habitkicker.livejournal.com]

"Text alerts for people overstaying visas"

While the rhetoric is indeed vomit-inducing, it's kind of reassuring to see that it's backed up with such utter incompetence. Business as usual.

[altariel.livejournal.com]

It's a US show, so I wonder if it has any different connotations in a US context.

[the-wild-iris.livejournal.com]

Because when a senior minister boasts of the number of asylum seekers he's 'throwing out', naturally everyone would want to go through the legitimate channels. Assuming they're not too scared and exhausted from crossing from Africa in an open boat to actually think straight.

John Reid is... like something from Animal Farm come to life. Were we so complacent that we ended up with a National Stalinist home secretary?

[owl]

I would have said that routine health care was basic. After all, today's flu could be next week's pneumonia.

[manna]

I heard that on Radio One while I was at work, and I almost dropped a pipette on my cells when I realised it wasn't actually some right-wing crazy...oh, wait. My mistake.

[iainjcoleman.livejournal.com]

Were we so complacent that we ended up with a National Stalinist home secretary?

Yes. (For some value of "we".)

[edge-of-ruin.livejournal.com]

Yes it was a Babylon 5 reference as Altariel says. It was in the front of my mind because she's just lent be the DVDs. Sorry if the comment was a bit thoughtless.

[gfk88.livejournal.com]

It makes me feel physically sick that an idiot like Reid would come to my country, steal my ability to walk around without identity papers, and undermine my society by accidentally releasing lots of criminals onto the streets.

You don't want to feel too physically sick though. His mates have made such a fuck-up of the NHS that you might find yourself in some difficulty.

[owl]

test as in mobile phone? What earthly use is that?