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altariel ([personal profile] altariel) wrote2004-01-22 04:21 pm
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He Who Laughs

[livejournal.com profile] seasalt asked about He Who Laughs, a piece about Túrin Turambar.



I don’t know The Silmarillion very well, and certainly don’t know much about its evolution as described in HoMe. But the one story that has stuck with me is the story of Túrin Turambar. More particularly, the version of the story from UT, in which we learn about his little sister Lalaith (laughter) and her early death. (And get the final meeting of Morwen and Hurin.) I must have read this when I was about 12 or 13. Someone should have been giving me happy books, I think.

What an absolutely bloody miserable life Túrin has! Cursed by Morgoth, instrumental in the ruin of Nargothrond, fails to prevent the death of Finduilas, and ends up unwittingly getting his sister Nienor (which means ‘mourning’) pregnant before finding out and (perhaps understandably) topping himself.

Right back in its early days, there was a discussion on the Henneth Annûn list about Túrin, in which we wondered whether or not he could ever have been happy. At least one other story emerged from this discussion, concerning his childhood, before Lalaith died and Húrin is taken captive. I wanted to write a piece too, so I started doing some further reading – going back to the story in The Silmarillion and, more importantly, the Narn I Hîn Húrin in UT. And I looked up the relevant bits in HoMe. (This rereading all reminded me of the horrible bit where he is unable to prevent the taking of Finduilas into slavery, while Glaurung watches on and mocks him.)

I found out all manner of interesting things that I’d forgotten in the 20 years since I’d read the story. About how, when he was a child, he would try to make things, but his hand would slip and ruin them. About how he pushed for the building of the bridge that was the reason that Nargothrond would eventually be destroyed. That the curse upon the children of Húrin effectively left Túrin without free will, and living a pre-determined life. I rapidly came to the conclusion that Túrin really couldn’t ever be happy until he was dead, and that suicide was really the logical end to the story. Of course, when reading Tolkien, we are meant to see death as Gift, not Curse. Túrin’s life was certainly a curse. Death would definitely feel like a gift.

I also found out some other things – particularly the legend that on his death Túrin is transformed into a constellation, the Swordsman (Orion), and that, at the end of the world, he will fight the Last Battle against Melkor. This is how Túrin will get his revenge for the curse. (The red star in the constellation, our Betelgeuse, is called Borgil, which means something like ever-star, I think, in the sense of enduring star.)

So, how to write a fic about this? The themes that emerged seemed to be about fate, and predestination, about choice and lack of choice. So paths and ways and fates. ‘Laughter’ and ‘mourning’ seemed important too, as the bookends of his life. I was stuck on it for a while (weighty themes!), and also a bit blocked around the time I wrote it. It got shorter and shorter as I wrote. And I didn’t know whether I’d managed the source material OK or whether I’d made a mess of it. When it was done I stuck it in a drawer, until I mentioned it in email to someone, and she read it and encouraged me to post it.

This post is now almost three times as long as the piece, so I’ll stop.



Yes, this is much better than making notes on flexible specialization.

[identity profile] ex-seasalt15.livejournal.com 2004-01-22 05:33 pm (UTC)(link)
Thank you. Everything I asked for, and more, delivered with customary lucidity and concision.
Túrin is a weird interest of mine, inasmuch as he is the closest thing in Tolkien´s whole work to a conscious, almost blatant reworking of several tragic themes of Greek (Oedipus being only the most obvious, with large doses of Herodotus) and Germanic origin (Baldr´s innocent killer waiting to avenge himself on Loki the deceiver at the end of the Gotterdamerung). I think something could be written about how Tolkien went wrong on almost every possible count, shifting from tragedy to melodrama through excessive juxtaposition and explanation. On first reading your very short, very allusive piece (back in my second day at HASA or so), I remember thinking that the elusive/allusive approach you had selected worked much better and was truer to the original Greek and Germanic spirit of the story, which deals in foreshadowing based on the reader´s foreknowledge. Tragic irony, as it were.
Indeed, reading about what someone wrote on Túrin is much better than further doses of Antigonization ;-).

[identity profile] altariel.livejournal.com 2004-01-22 07:01 pm (UTC)(link)
I think something could be written about how Tolkien went wrong on almost every possible count, shifting from tragedy to melodrama through excessive juxtaposition and explanation.

Well, I would certainly like to hear more about that.

Interesting to get the connection to the Germanic legends; I didn't know that. Thanks for asking about the story - I enjoyed writing about it (and not just because it was better than reading an OB textbook *g*).

[identity profile] ex-seasalt15.livejournal.com 2004-01-22 08:06 pm (UTC)(link)
Well, I would certainly like to hear more about that.

So would I *runs away*.

Interesting to get the connection to the Germanic legends; I didn't know that.

It is also very funny the way Tolkien is covering his tracks there, as it were. In Lt. 131 he says, of Children of Húrin, "a figure that might be said (by people who like this sort of thing, though it is not very useful) to be derived from elements in Sigurd the Volsung, Oedipus and Finnish Kullervo". It´s just as when he derided any symbolic/allegoric value for his legendarium, which strikes me as disingenuous, at best. Sometimes he seems to delight in drawing attention to what he later on makes a show of rejecting. He is explaining the dragon-killing part and the incest part, but he doesn´t mention what I find the most intriguing part of the tale, Túrin´s catasterism and his rôle at the End of All Things.
I think I may be a tad too morbidly obsessed about Baldr´s death.

Thanks for asking about the story - I enjoyed writing about it.

May you find it it your heart to indulge me by commenting on another story? After four hours of conference-writing, I think I deserve a treat. I´ve been very good all day.

[identity profile] altariel.livejournal.com 2004-01-23 01:28 am (UTC)(link)
Thanks for the heads-up on the letter - I need to check that one out.

May you find it it your heart to indulge me by commenting on another story?

Sure, I enjoyed myself! Fire ahead.

[identity profile] ex-seasalt15.livejournal.com 2004-01-23 05:08 pm (UTC)(link)
Since you gave me leave to be aggravating, I want the lowdown on the connections between "The Key", "Possessions" and "The King´s Shilling". Adding "Black Captain" into the discourse a plus *g*.

[identity profile] altariel.livejournal.com 2004-01-23 05:34 pm (UTC)(link)
Oof, you know how to pick 'em. Er... are there connections? "Fathers and Substitute Fathers" is my first thought!

[identity profile] ex-seasalt15.livejournal.com 2004-01-23 08:11 pm (UTC)(link)
are there connections?
I was thinking along more political lines: "I know you were using me, but I was also using you, although for a different purpose. And all was right with the world".
;-).
Faramir is a canny soul. He must have perceived since he was little that there was some grain of truth to his father´s suspicions about Gandalf. Being like his father, and quite adept at maneuvring himself, he must have seen what his father saw. But this is where the differences between father and son come into their own. In the end, Faramir realizes what his father did not: that Olórin was sent to Arda for several reasons, Faramir´s welfare and happiness being one of them.

[identity profile] altariel.livejournal.com 2004-01-23 10:39 pm (UTC)(link)
Faramir is a canny soul. He must have perceived since he was little that there was some grain of truth to his father´s suspicions about Gandalf.

Oh, now there's a story...

You're doing a much better job of commenting on these than I am!

I was intrigued you picked these four as a set. Obviously Possessions and The King's Shilling go together, but The Key was written for Dwim!verse, and Black Captain I usually pair in my mind with The King is Dead. So an interesting selection to pick out together.

[identity profile] ex-seasalt15.livejournal.com 2004-01-24 10:25 am (UTC)(link)
As I´ve told you sometimes, I´m never obvious, and neither are you, my dear ;-). Why did I pick up The Key and Black Captain to go together?. Well: lessons in statecraft, as it were. Rightly or wrongly, my mind (surely getting ahead of itself) has spinned the following yarn: let´s assume that Denethor suspects Gandalf is trying to attract Faramir to his own party, which would be the reinstauration of what Denethor considers an usurper. Since both men are very long-sighted and able to play a game of chess with the mind set years in advance, Denethor might suspect that all the interest Gandalf shows in his precocious young son must answer to another, hidden, political purpose which won´t pay dividends until Faramir is of an age. He may well be thinking that Gandalf wants to make Faramir head the Fifth Column, should Denethor and his supporters refuse to accept the return of the King. Thus Denethor´s attempt to learn his son´s life through the journals, seeking for Gandalf´s hand there; a failed endeavour, because Faramir has nothing to hide in that respect. The King´s Shilling and Possessions are, I think, confirmation of the seeming truth in Denethor´s suspicions, but conformation, as well, of the intrinsic good of Gandalf´s maneuvres. Faramir lets his old friend know that he has always been aware of what was going on, but, as he may have resolved sometime in the past that this is what had to be done, he aided willingly, thus raising in stature from pawn to Queen. Black Captain is Faramir telling obliquely Aragorn all of this, besides playing his father´s substitute (the piece is, after all, a mirror of The King is Dead). Indeed, assuming the position his father should have taken as Aragorn´s right-hand man and servant, loyal but independent-thinking, and all the more valuable for that.

[identity profile] altariel.livejournal.com 2004-01-22 07:03 pm (UTC)(link)
Túrin is a weird interest of mine

It's one of the few Silm stories that really gripped me from my first readings - the others being the Valaquenta and the Akallabeth. Not even the Beren and Luthien story stood out as memorably in my mind, even though I know it's the 'key' to the thing.
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[identity profile] altariel.livejournal.com 2004-01-22 07:06 pm (UTC)(link)
Thank you - I'm glad it worked for you. It was such a little piece, I think it slips past the radar easily. It was fun to write up the comments earlier too!
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[identity profile] altariel.livejournal.com 2004-01-22 07:07 pm (UTC)(link)
And thanks for linking on your LJ!
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[identity profile] altariel.livejournal.com 2004-01-22 07:19 pm (UTC)(link)
No problem! I do it all the time as well, and go back and tweak posts!