altariel: (Default)
altariel ([personal profile] altariel) wrote2010-07-26 10:24 am
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Sherlock

Sherlock was brilliant. Why has nobody thought of doing that with text messages before? Inspired. I love how the set at 221B Baker Street looks like a thirties refit of the set from the Granada series.

Only false note for me (and it was a very slight false note, barely a semi-tone) was the too-whimsical Mycroft, who seemed to have stepped out of an episode of The Avengers. But otherwise - yes, more of that, thank you very much. I request that telly be like this more of the time, otherwise I'll have to go back to my West Wing uber-mega-marathon.

Upon which subject: Jed Bartlet is such an arse.

[identity profile] communicator.livejournal.com 2010-07-26 09:29 am (UTC)(link)
Yes, I really liked it. I keep reading about other people who didn't enjoy it, but I haven't seen anything but positive comment on my f-list.

[identity profile] altariel.livejournal.com 2010-07-26 10:37 am (UTC)(link)
I've only seen a couple of negative comments too. I thought it was very entertaining, well-performed and directed, with plenty to enjoy if you already know the stories, and plenty to send you to the stories if you didn't know them already.

[identity profile] communicator.livejournal.com 2010-07-26 10:40 am (UTC)(link)
My daughter has just been reading the Sherlock canon, and she was delighted by the number of in-jokes.

I thought Moffat did much better in this one than in his Jekyll and Hyde. I also liked the way they dealt with the potential-UST issue in a sensible modern way.

Actually, must blog about this myself.

[identity profile] altariel.livejournal.com 2010-07-26 01:05 pm (UTC)(link)
How brilliant to be reading and watching them at the same time. (I'm just finishing a reread of them too.)

Jekyll was a mess, IMHO. It seemed to me that someone, halfway through, realised that the script was saying, "My creativity would reach the levels of genius if it were not for the women around me!" - which they then tried to turn round, but didn't have time to do properly.
Edited 2010-07-26 13:06 (UTC)

[identity profile] jhall1.livejournal.com 2010-07-26 09:42 am (UTC)(link)
Yes, it was great fun. Sherlock Holmes reminded me rather of the 11th Doctor, with his manic enthusiasm and his odd take on things. I suppose that with Steven Moffat involved, that's not surprising. The same goes for the wittiness of the script.

[identity profile] altariel.livejournal.com 2010-07-26 10:37 am (UTC)(link)
Yes, it was really Whovian! There were a couple of speech patterns I caught as well, just like the 11th Doctor.
manna: (Default)

[personal profile] manna 2010-07-26 11:43 am (UTC)(link)
I thought it was okay. I loved the first forty-five minutes, and was then terribly bored for half an hour while they faffed around making Sherlock look like an idiot, and did the Princess Bride scene. (Also, and here it reminded me of Luther, whatever happened to show not tell when it comes to your lead character's mental state? There's no need to have the cast expositing all over the place. Trust the audience a little!)

Still, I very much look forwards to future episodes not written by Stephen Moffat.

[identity profile] lil-shepherd.livejournal.com 2010-07-26 01:02 pm (UTC)(link)
They didn't actually reveal how the killer had worked his trick, because they couldn't work it out themselves, apparently. Which is just cheating.

[identity profile] altariel.livejournal.com 2010-07-26 01:06 pm (UTC)(link)
I thought he'd just been lucky four times?

[identity profile] altariel.livejournal.com 2010-07-26 01:52 pm (UTC)(link)
Is it? I thought it was consistent with the theme of Sherlock (and Watson) being risk-takers and needing danger. The cabbie's luck was no worse than that of Paul the Psychic Octopus! Anyway, YMMV.

[identity profile] lil-shepherd.livejournal.com 2010-07-26 02:06 pm (UTC)(link)
They ran through twenty minutes of faffing about how the murders could have worked, it was the climax of the episode and the whole point of the plot and the mystery, but it was dismissed with the comment that he "got lucky". It was quite obvious from about a third of the way in that the cabbie did it, and after that we just sat watching Holmes floundering about while, at the end, Mrs Hudson waved the solution as to the who under his nose.

So we went on to the method, and a giant build-up as to how it was done, but in the end, with a wave of the magic want, dismissed as pure luck and Holmes saved by GPS and an illegal handgun.

In the 30s, that would have got the writers drummed out of the Detective writers club (I forget what it was called) as cheating.

Furthermore, the whole of the way Holmes detected in canon is now part of the mainstream. You can watch The Mentalist doing the observation thing (and better than it was done last night) every week. Holmes was the first 'scientific detective' but scientific detection is now also part of the mainstream and there is nothing he can do that isn't done every week on CSI.

[identity profile] lil-shepherd.livejournal.com 2010-07-26 03:08 pm (UTC)(link)
No one is suggesting you shouldn't have enjoyed it, but there is a difference between bad-but-fun and good.

[identity profile] altariel.livejournal.com 2010-07-26 03:33 pm (UTC)(link)
I didn't think it was bad at all. I thought it was stylishly made, nicely acted, energetic (apart from the brief dip in the middle), witty, and that it had great affection for and fun with the sources. I didn't catch it was the cabbie, but then I'm quite content to switch off my brain and let myself be entertained on a Sunday evening. I'll be tuning in next week. As I say, YMMV.

[identity profile] lil-shepherd.livejournal.com 2010-07-26 03:44 pm (UTC)(link)
But detective fiction and drama is about plot. Which is where this fell flat on its face.

[identity profile] altariel.livejournal.com 2010-07-26 03:48 pm (UTC)(link)
As I say - I didn't guess the villain and his motivation made sense to me, and that plus the entertainment factor was more than enough for me. I'm sorry you didn't enjoy it.
ext_6322: (Arthur die)

[identity profile] kalypso-v.livejournal.com 2010-07-26 03:02 pm (UTC)(link)
I think having it down to luck was unsatisfactory, though it might have been improved slightly if the murderer's luck had run out, Sherlock worked out enough to get them there just in time to find him dying, and they arrested the lucky not-dead person as the serial killer. And then, of course, Sherlock would have to work out and prove she/he was telling the truth, but with the real killer already dead and no longer posing a threat that might have been a bit anticlimactic.

[identity profile] lil-shepherd.livejournal.com 2010-07-26 03:12 pm (UTC)(link)
I think trying to stick to at least part of the plot of A Study in Scarlet was a mistake. It's a weak plot as Doyle goes, and they had to drop the Mormon connection as not being PC. In order to make this Sherlock as extraordinary as he was in his own time, they are going to have to predict, as Doyle did in some stories, the methods that will be used in the future.
ext_6322: (Book)

[identity profile] kalypso-v.livejournal.com 2010-07-26 03:24 pm (UTC)(link)
It's so many years since I read A Study in Scarlet that I don't think I remember anything but the Mormon connection, and a vague image of people struggling across a desert. I just had to look at a synopsis to see what they'd lifted.

[identity profile] lil-shepherd.livejournal.com 2010-07-26 03:33 pm (UTC)(link)
I know. Funnily enough, all I remembered of it myself was the Mormon historical thing (which is boring enough to etch itself into granite) and the meeting in the lab. However, once it was pointed out to me that they were actually using bits of the plot, I went to look it up too.
manna: (Default)

[personal profile] manna 2010-07-26 03:16 pm (UTC)(link)
It was quite obvious from about a third of the way in that the cabbie did it, and after that we just sat watching Holmes floundering about while, at the end, Mrs Hudson waved the solution as to the who under his nose.

For me, it stalled at the point where Holmes was listing all the points which applied to a taxi driver, while about eight black cabs drove aimlessly around in the street behind him. I'm really not sure what they were trying to achieve -- if they wanted the audience to feel smarter than Holmes, that seems like a misguided thing to do when you're trying to establish the character as a genius.

So we went on to the method, and a giant build-up as to how it was done, but in the end, with a wave of the magic want, dismissed as pure luck and Holmes saved by GPS and an illegal handgun.

It was a very poor ending.

The worst part of the plotting, though, I thought, was the ridiculous set-up with the mobile phone. Let's suppose that you think you've been kidnapped by someone who's going to kill you. Do you:

a) Hide your mobile phone in his taxi, trusting that at some point between then and your horrible death you will be able to leave an extremely obscure clue which will allow the police to track your phone by GPS, and catch the person who is about to kill you, or,

b) PHONE BLOODY 999 AND GET HELP!

That was just lazy, slipshod writing, really. It was like someone had read the Holmes stories, but didn't really understand how they worked. I'm hoping that Mark Gatiss will be able to make a better fist of it. His Lucifer Box stories suggest be might.

Furthermore, the whole of the way Holmes detected in canon is now part of the mainstream.

That's an excellent point. I think a really good, fun Holmes pastiche is still be a workable concept, though, but it can't afford to be lazy about the plot.

[identity profile] vasiliki.livejournal.com 2010-07-30 01:05 pm (UTC)(link)
So we went on to the method, and a giant build-up as to how it was done, but in the end, with a wave of the magic want, dismissed as pure luck and Holmes saved by GPS and an illegal handgun.

Like the giant build-up during an entire season in "Supernatural" for the final confrontation between Michael!Dean and Lucifer!Sam and then... Adam taking Dean's place.

You can watch The Mentalist doing the observation thing (and better than it was done last night) every week. Holmes was the first 'scientific detective' but scientific detection is now also part of the mainstream and there is nothing he can do that isn't done every week on CSI.

Both, true.
Still, I enjoyed watching it! I found clever and innovative the text messages popping up. I loved the music. Their banter just before Holmes introduced himself to Watson made me happy, same as Rupert Graves' presence (which is actually the main reason I watched "Sherlock"! I'm weird that way! :P).

[identity profile] lil-shepherd.livejournal.com 2010-07-30 01:32 pm (UTC)(link)
Personally, I think they are going to find it very difficult to keep finding riffs on Holmes canon to make jokes about.

[identity profile] altariel.livejournal.com 2010-07-26 01:03 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes there was a bit of lull about halfway through. What was the Princess Bride scene?
ext_6322: (Arthur die)

[identity profile] kalypso-v.livejournal.com 2010-07-26 01:15 pm (UTC)(link)
Having to choose between two drinks knowing one of them is poisoned. (http://honesthypocrite.blogspot.com/2006/07/game-theory-and-princess-bride.html)

I was quite pleased when I saw the cabbie was Phil Davis... but I think the problem was that they were quite pleased he was Phil Davis, too, and kept the final scene between him and Sherlock running longer than it should have done.

[identity profile] altariel.livejournal.com 2010-07-26 01:53 pm (UTC)(link)
Ha, I'd forgotten that bit!
manna: (Default)

[personal profile] manna 2010-07-26 03:18 pm (UTC)(link)
I was so sad that it didn't end up with Holmes having spent years building up an immunity to iocaine powder.

[identity profile] altariel.livejournal.com 2010-07-26 03:33 pm (UTC)(link)
:-)
ext_6322: (Wait)

[identity profile] kalypso-v.livejournal.com 2010-07-26 12:11 pm (UTC)(link)
I did like the text messages nearly all the time; I thought the triple use in the first instance was over-egging it (twice would have worked better).

I was so relieved that Mycroft was only Mycroft (unless that's a twist) that I didn't mind very much. I have a bugbear about one-or-two-off characters becoming ubiquitous in fanfiction* (eg Avalon); it may seem inconsistent when my rare excursions into fanfic have a bias to one-off characters, but I like to see them not interacting with regulars (ie a story about Avalon and her own gang would be fine).

It may also be inconsistent to be happy about Mycroft being Mycroft, but I don't think he's been over-used in the way that Moriarty and Adler have.

* Which this clearly is.

[identity profile] skywaterblue.livejournal.com 2010-07-26 05:46 pm (UTC)(link)
Bartlet is indeed, an emotionally manipulative dick. Are you going to be watching the whole series or just the Sorkin years?

[identity profile] altariel.livejournal.com 2010-07-26 06:04 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm going to watch through to the end. I liked the whole Santos storyline, and Alan Alda was brilliant. There's just the dreadful barrier of season 5 to get through first.

[identity profile] skywaterblue.livejournal.com 2010-07-26 06:25 pm (UTC)(link)
I find a lot of the Alda-campaign episodes sloggy, and while Season Five is wildly out of character (with Leo taking on all of Bartlet's emotional manipulation with even less of the charm), I at least get a charge out of seeing how twisted out of shape the characters become.

Though, I think a Vinick spinoff would have been good. They had a good cast assembled for his staff.

I applaud you for doing the whole thing, though.

[identity profile] altariel.livejournal.com 2010-07-26 06:31 pm (UTC)(link)
It'll be interesting to see that storyline again with everything so fresh in my memory: I'm sure I appreciated them so much chiefly because it was such an improvement on S5. I agree a Vinick spin-off would have been great and, in my imagination, Ainsley is there.

It's no difficulty for me watching lots of WW episodes, they're very more-ish. I only really started last week and I'm already halfway through season 3. I imagine I'll slow down soon.

[identity profile] skywaterblue.livejournal.com 2010-07-26 07:00 pm (UTC)(link)
A lot of the politics are really dated for me now, especially as they decide pretty early on in that series that it is an AU and thus 9/11 doesn't happen. Wells just makes that trend worse with series finales where shit like "Bartlet solves Israel-Palestine single-handedly" happens.

It makes it tough for me to even watch the Santos episodes because he's so clearly an Obama-analogue without the surrounding history that made Obama an appealing candidate in the first place.

I'm eager to see what you make of it now.

Edited 2010-07-26 19:01 (UTC)

[identity profile] altariel.livejournal.com 2010-07-27 09:02 am (UTC)(link)
You're right about the politics seeming dated. I was surprised to realise - from this watching - how much of the show was made during the Bush administration, and post 9-11. If you'd asked, I would have thought 'Isaac and Ishmael' was at least a season later.

[identity profile] lindahoyland.livejournal.com 2010-07-27 05:18 am (UTC)(link)
I didn't expect to enjoy it, but I did and found the updating worked.I soon guessed it must be a cab driver, but that didn't spoil it.

[identity profile] altariel.livejournal.com 2010-07-27 09:02 am (UTC)(link)
I agree the updating worked really well. I'll be watching the next two very happily.