altariel | Orbital 2008

Current Music: Chumbawamba, words like birds flew right around the world

Entry tags:

eastercon

Orbital 2008

Back from Eastercon, where many excellent conversations were had with many excellent people.

Both the panels seemed to go well, thank you for great modding to

nickeyb and Piers Beckley. I came away with plenty to think about and more to say, which I think is the sign of a good panel. The audience at the TV tie-in/novelizations panel entirely agreed with panellists that OF COURSE they are proper books, which meant that the most potentially contentious topic was dealt with quite briskly, but that in turn meant that we could get straight into other avenues of discussion. I think I spoke mainly about the similarities and differences in writing fanfiction and profiction, but I never remember what I say in public places, which is surely a disaster waiting to happen. I'd been reading in this feature on Chumbawamba about the immediacy of folk music, and there's a line in that which I think is a good description of posting fanfic on the internet: "A lot of folk music is about writing a song on a Tuesday and standing up in a club on a Wednesday and singing it". This contrasts to the longer production processes of profic (and zine production, for that matter).

nickeyb finished by asking us which universes we would most like to write in should the gods be listening: Firefly and Rome, FWIW.

At the Star Trek panel there was, IIRC, general consensus that the franchise has plenty of future in a variety of formats, but needs to nurture a new and younger cohort of fans and, depending on the success of the forthcoming film, this might take a generational shift of 10-15 years. I had a quick look through the copy of Terok Nor: Day of the Vipers which

jmswallow had brought along. It's set during the Cardassian occupation of Bajor, it looks epic, and I can't wait to get my hands on my own copy.

Other panels at which I was an audience member of varying degrees of mouthiness: the Doctor Who panel on The Doctor: Saviour or Trickster God dealt with the extent to which the Christian imagery of the last season implied an endorsement in the writing of an interventionist god: I think "not at all", and that the last season in particular was strongly anti-authoritarian, although I do see that of course this says nothing about the various ways in which the series might be interpreted. Lots of interesting things said about the Doctor as a great British amateur in the tradition of Peter Wimsey et al.; I thoroughly like the idea of an amateur god and would quite like to play one on the telly myself. We were just getting onto the archetypes which Daleks draw on when the panel sadly had to wrap up (obviously they're fascists, but I hadn't thought of them before as WW1 tanks and part of that national trauma). Great discussion all round.

I got to the late-night Saturday panel on Martha Jones: Most Heroic Companion? halfway through, by which time con fever (and possibly drink...?) had apparently turned everyone in the room quite mad ("Troughton simply does not have the raw sexual energy of Hartnell..."). This panel wound up with a great series of pitches by each of the panellists as to why their favourite companion was the most heroic, these being Ace, Steven, Barbara, and Martha, all of which were very convincing, although

calapine swung it for me with her passionate love for Barbara Wright (and her earlier paean to Polly).

Also went along to a panel on the UK SF short fiction market. The mood seemed quite despondent about the amount of fiction coming through and also about the future of publications like Interzone. I suspect everyone's busy podcasting Stargate: Atlantis slash. We touched briefly on new media outlets for short fiction; I'd loved to have heard more on this - perhaps a topic for Redemption?

Monday morning I went to a fascinating small panel on fanfiction: the first time I've ever been to a discussion of fanfic at which the participants were predominantly male. The specific topic under discussion was why there was very little fanfic based on SF books: there's plenty based on film or TV SF, and a respectable amount based on fantasy or romance books - but next to nothing based on SF books. (An honourable exception being Bujold.) We didn't really come to a conclusion about why this was the case. One suggestion was that SF as the literature of ideas tended to be character-lite... and yet we agreed one could easily imagine writing fanfic based on certain settings or universes using underdeveloped or new characters (in the way people write Tolkien appendix fic, for example). So it was hard to come to a conclusion why. I was very interested to hear the teenaged experiences of the men (and some of the women) in the room who had pretty much all done story-telling in shared universes when they took up role-playing. Myself, I would have loved to have role-played as an adolescent, but I was pretty much the only remotely geek child at my all girls' school, and consequently spent my time in solitary thinking up B7 stories and mapping fighting fantasy gamebooks. Thank god for university and, of course, eventually, the internet.

Mitch Benn did an hour on the Saturday night. Mitch Benn! I'm used to smaller cons, so when I saw his name on the programme, I thought it was someone doing some of his routines for the cabaret, but it was the real live thing! He is one funny fucker. The routine about people who have full-sized Daleks in their homes was of course very close to my heart: apparently we do not cut it because we didn't build ours from scratch.

In between all this I did a few stints on the Redemption table in the dealers' room. The people at the next table were selling fabric book bags and, to my delight, one of them bore the legend: "BOUCHERCON". (No, I've NO idea, it seems to be about something to do with cattle - the other tagline is "Longhorns of the Law", which is pleasingly Star Cops-ish.) To my further delight, the lovely

katlinel presented said bag to me on Monday morning. That one's coming to Redemption.

Hotel: I was staying over in the Marriott, which was the excellent plan I knew it would be; it's always good to have a quiet place to go to, and there was a Costa in reception to provide the necessaries of life (i.e. Not Hotel Coffee). Only gripe was that I couldn't quite get the aircon low enough in my room: I think I may have been the only person at the convention who felt too hot most of the time. However, I'll stay in the Marriott by preference for Odyssey 2010.

A very special thank you to

muuranker, who brought weights and a barbell along for me - and thanks to

glitterboy1 for carting them back! I'd never have got them home otherwise. There were tube shenanigans both ways (Piccadilly service not stopping at King's X because presumably we WON'T NEED THAT ON A BANK HOLIDAY). I was resigned to this for the homeward journey; inevitably when I got back to King's X station it was to see the fell words: "BUS SERVICE FROM ROYSTON" - so glad I invested in that first class ticket! A rickety double-decker clattered me home and it turned out to be a unexpectedly cheerful ride: the snow had all but melted, apart from the occasional sad lump of departing snowman, and with the early evening sun on the wet green grass it was as if Cambridge had been washed clean while I was away.

This morning I've watched the end of The Passion, and ordered

jmswallow's Terok Nor: Day of the Vipers via Amazon's SEND IT TO ME THIS MINUTE one-click service. And now I'm going to finish Ruddy Gore by Kerry Greenwood.

Very well done and a big THANK YOU to the Orbital committee: here's to

redemption_con 2009 and

odyssey2010!

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Bouchercon is named after Anthony of that Ilk and is the main con for mysteries--it's in the US and tends to be held in Philadelphia.

Firefly fic please!

Ah! So it is! The cattle must therefore be something to do with this particular one taking place in Texas.

This is me deciding that I *will* go to Redemption 2009, and screw finances.

It would not be Redemption without you!

You've made me want to go to the next one!

Wish you had been at this one!

Thanks for not including a spoiler for what happens in The Passion. :)

To be serious, I found your con report interesting. I'll just pick up on one point: The specific topic under discussion was why there was very little fanfic based on SF books: there's plenty based on film or TV SF

Isn't it at least partly because a successful SF film or TV series will be seen by millions, whereas for SF books you are generally talking in terms of sales of at best tens of thousands? Even if you add library readers and people lending books to their friends, there would stil be a big disparity. I suspect that nowadays fantasy books comfortably outsell SF; certainly the shelves of book shops give that impression.

It's noticeable that the newsgroup uk.media.books.sf is pretty much moribund whereas uk.people.sf-fans is reasonably lively.

Thanks for not including a spoiler for what happens in The Passion. :)

LOL! I was going to blog about watching it last week, and not being sure it was going to turn out well ;-)

That's an extremely good point about the relative audience sizes of SF books. fantasy books, and SF film/TV. Perhaps there simply isn't quite a big enough audience to have gathered up enough momentum to translate into online fanfic. Fanfic based on literary sources feels like a relatively new online phenomenon to me: I think

yuletide is probably a significant factor in that, with its focus on "rare" fandoms.

glad you had a good time! :) And the Doctor as Trickster-- now THERE'S a paper topic... ::g::

It was great stuff! I handed out flyers at the Martha panel and I hope there'll be some interest.

BTW, could you resend your last email to me? Yahoo seems to have munched it over the weekend, bizarrely.

Wow! You remember a lot about the panels you were on - it's all a blur for me. That, and the fact my report was already too long meant that I had to leave all that out. Woe.

I wish I could have got to the Fanfic for SF panel, but I didn't manage to make it to a 10.00am panel all weekend :) It sounds like a missed a gem.

I'd happily read a part 2 con report from you! I've no idea what China Mieville said in his GoH speech (and I'd like to know what you disagreed with).

I had to make a special effort to get to that fanfic panel, and felt fairly delicate throughout. I'd had a fairly good night's sleep the night before, though (and I didn't do much late night socializing in the bar throughout). Perhaps it's a panel idea that would work in some form for Redemption?

That sounds like huge fun. (envies)

It was a great deal of fun. I hope you'll soon be up to another Redemption, or perhaps Odyssey.

Sounds like a great time - weird about the sci-fi books panel. I hadn't realized such a gap in fandom existed. Huh.

FWIW, I'd love to read Firefly fiction by you.

Dwim

It was a very enjoyable weekend. Plenty more panels I would have happily gone along to, but I also wanted to spend time catching up with friends who were there.

I hadn't thought about the SF gap either, until I saw the panel on the schedule. And I honestly can't think of a reason why - although

jhall1 made a good point upthread about the size of the readership, in comparison to SF films/TV and fantasy books.

I'd love to read Firefly fiction by you.

Thank you! I'm not sure why I never got bitten by that particular bug. I got into the show relatively late, and there was already a lot of fanfic out there, and I never really worked out where to start with it. And then I got very quickly distracted by new Doctor Who.

Great to hear about the con - sounds like a good weekend.

It was a lot of fun, so much to think about and talk about - I wish you could have been there. I thought about you at the panel on short stories when people were getting despondent and I wished they could see all the brilliant stuff going on in and around SGA fandom. Also at the panel on Trek, when someone asked how people got into watching it these days: I remembered you talking about it as part of a fannish heritage. I went to a panel on B7 too (which I must post about): "Why is B7 still so popular?" It was a real love-in! We all went away feeling great, surely not in the spirit of the show!

Edited 2008-03-27 10:45 (UTC)

I wish I could have been there too, it sounds lovely. I must start trying to coordinate my life better so I can do these things too. I'm going to try and go to a con in the states next year, maybe Vividcon. Ooh yes, do post about the B7 panel, I'd love to hear about it.

Do you think that that is really the case, though, that the SF short story scene of the Interzone type is suffering because of the popularity of fanfiction? Are we stealing authors who would otherwise have been writing things for those magazines? I have no idea of the original SF scene online - do people post original stories that might otherwise have gone to magazines in the same way that we post fic? Or is pro publishing becoming less prestigious in the SF/fantasy community, do you think?

ETA - I'm looking at being in the UK for the first two weeks of June. Are you going to be around then? Is that in the middle of or just before the exam landslide?

Edited 2008-03-27 19:19 (UTC)

Vividcon sounds great! The US con I'd love to get to one day is WisCon, the feminist SF con in Wisconsin (d'ya see what they did there?).

We are definitely around in June and would love to see you. Exams are not my problem this year, yippee!

On SF short stories... I haven't quite worked out what's going on. My impression from the people involved in that area was that the SF short story magazine was in decline. Given how much fanfic is produced and consumed, it can't be something to do with a decline in the form itself. There's clearly a huge audience for short fiction... but many people are getting it for free, and surrounded by a very lively and creative community to boot. Given it's free - what's the draw to buy short fiction - particularly if your friends are not necessarily reading it? There's only so much time in the day for reading, after all!

I don't think pro publishing is becoming less prestigious, but there seems a blurring going on between fan and pro productions. One of the (fan-produced) Star Trek: New Voyages scripts has been nominated for the Hugo and the Nebula.

Must think about this more, however.

That is interesting. I do hope Interzone doesn't fold, if only for the wonderful Thog's Masterclass.

I'm fascinated to hear about the script being nominated. That really is cool. I'll have to check those out - have you read/seen them? They're producing episodes from the scripts too, right? Has the episode been nominated, or just the script?

I haven't read/seen them, but I've heard some good things said. Yes, they're producing them as dramatized episodes - they've recast Kirk, Spock, et al. and doing them as downloads on their website. So it's a 're-imagining' as the phrase goes these days.

The script has been shortlisted for a Nebula (that's how drama is recognized at the Nebulas, I assume because they're writing awards). It's up there alongside Children of Men, Pan's Labyrinth, V for Vendetta, The Prestige, and the Doctor Who episode 'Blink'. (I think I'd give it to one of the first two, but I couldn't decide which, both were astounding. The first is a great adaptation, the second is a brilliant original script.)

And it's up for Best Dramatic Presentation, Short Form at the Hugos (i.e. TV not film), along with more Doctor Who, and the super-slashy episode of Torchwood, 'Captain Jack Harkness'. I'd kind of like that to win just to see some slash fiction win, but really it should go to the Doctor Who two-parter 'Human Nature'/'Family of Blood'. Just so long as it doesn't go to fucking Battlestar Galactica (not that I've seen that particular episode, but when did that ever stop me from having an opinion on something?).

(Sorry for all the edited comments bouncing into your inbox; kept on thinking of things to add.)

Edited 2008-03-29 09:02 (UTC)

That was a large and wonderful Eastercon, give or take the bits where I regretted leaving my coat in my room and shivered.

You must be one of these people.

It was a smashing Eastercon, although I'm sorry we didn't manage to meet. Are you likely to come to Redemption?

I am indeed one of those people: I'm the one on the far right, with "UNA" in front of her, and in bad need of a haircut!

No, as someone who doesn't watch much t.v., I've found media cons are wasted on me. For the past few years I've been doing Picocon, Eastercon, and Novacon. I may do a different fall con this year: Fantasycon or Newcon are the alternatives I'm considering - depending on what finances are looking at post-house acquisition.

It's a small island, really. We'll meet up one of these days.

Quite understand. I have my eye on Newcon too, particularly as it's relatively close to where I am.

It was very splendid to see you! And thank you so much for everything.

As for the weights, it was no problem at all! I did get some funny looks when I was packing up the car on Tuesday, but I hastily pointed out that they weren't mine, and all seemed to be well. We should probably arrange to transfer them to you at some point - let's e-mail, but basically, whenever's good for you. There's no rush.

I hastily pointed out that they weren't mine

But Mr Glitterboy! You're so trim! ;-)

We can transfer them any time (and you're the one with the full diary!). If we don't manage it before

katlinel comes to visit, we can do it then :-)

A pleasure to see you too, sir, and thank you for everything you did over the weekend.

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